Meaning of corok?

S.Workman · 29th July 2017, 02:45 AM

I have a rather long Bali keris, and it was recently described to me by a Facebook gentleman as a "keris corok". I look in vain on the web or in my (admittedly minute) library of keris books for this term. Can one of the more knowledgeable people here explain what corok means?

kai · 29th July 2017, 03:12 AM

A pic of your keris might help.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2017, 05:20 AM

In Javanese the word "corok" means a stick that you use to poke something with.

Some people refer to a longer than normal keris as a "keris corok".

Jean · 29th July 2017, 10:13 AM

A specimen of Javanese blade corok (42.5 cm long excluding the pesi). However I never heard this term applied to Balinese blades.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2017, 10:29 AM

In fact Jean, I have very seldom heard it used in Jawa either, but I know some people do use it.

Perhaps the gentleman who advised Mr. Workman was Javanese.

S.Workman · 29th July 2017, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In fact Jean, I have very seldom heard it used in Jawa either, but I know some people do use it.

Perhaps the gentleman who advised Mr. Workman was Javanese.

Good morning guys,
I believe the fellow who provided the information is from Java. I didn't want to pry, I don't know him that well.
So it's a descriptive but somewhat ironic term? It brings to mind outsized o-Ken being called "oars" or "laundry poles" or things of that nature.
Overall length is 24.5". Would that normally qualify?

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2017, 02:20 PM

In Solo a common ironic term for a big, heavy keris is "linggis" --- a spud bar (crow bar, post hole bar).

S.Workman · 29th July 2017, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In Solo a common ironic term for a big, heavy keris is "linggis" --- a spud bar (crow bar, post hole bar).

Thats great, I love that word play. I still wonder if a my keris qualifies as a corok, although my understanding of the keris is limited to a few books and the perusal of a few museum collections, mostly eclectic and happenstance. And of course what I have been lucky enough to learn here.

Bjorn · 29th July 2017, 02:33 PM

I was under the impression that keris corok were mainly used in Sunda, and generally worn on the left hip owing to their larger size.

Jean · 29th July 2017, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Workman

Good morning guys,
I believe the fellow who provided the information is from Java. I didn't want to pry, I don't know him that well.
So it's a descriptive but somewhat ironic term? It brings to mind outsized o-Ken being called "oars" or "laundry poles" or things of that nature.
Overall length is 24.5". Would that normally qualify?

Your blade should be 40-42 cm long excluding the pesi, which is a pretty standard size for a Balinese blade.
Regards

Jean · 29th July 2017, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In fact Jean, I have very seldom heard it used in Jawa either, but I know some people do use it.

Perhaps the gentleman who advised Mr. Workman was Javanese.

I was told this term by my Solonese friend who is active in the kris business there.
Regards

S.Workman · 29th July 2017, 03:28 PM

Does anyone have a keris that is in fact a corok that they would be willing to post? I would like to see one long enough to be worn like a sword, if its not too inconvenient.
Or, is the one Jean posted above to be worn in that fashion?

S.Workman · 29th July 2017, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Your blade should be 40-42 cm long excluding the pesi, which is a pretty standard size for a Balinese blade.
Regards

Thats intriguing, I wonder what made my informant think of it as oversized? He saw a photo of it and knows the dimensions, perhaps something in the shape inspired him.

David · 29th July 2017, 04:42 PM

You stated the keris is 24.5" "overall". How long is just the blade then?

S.Workman · 29th July 2017, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

You stated the keris is 24.5" "overall". How long is just the blade then?

It isn't near me right now, but I'm going to say 18"

Jean · 29th July 2017, 08:58 PM

I used to be an engineer...
1. In metric units the total kris length is 24.5" or 62 cm.
2. Assuming that the blade is flush to the scabbard, the total kris length is the sum of the lengths of the hilt plus exposed pesi, and the gandar. I measured these at 3.5 cm and 12.4 cm respectively on my screen, so 15.9 cm total.
3. I measured the blade length at 10.7 cm on my screen.

Thus the blade length should be: (10.7 : 15.9) x 62 = 41.7 cm or 16.5 inches

Of course this result is not very accurate...
Regards

David · 30th July 2017, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Workman

It isn't near me right now, but I'm going to say 18"

Thanks. I would actually love a truly accurate accounting if you manage to dig up a ruler. Not doubting either your own approximating skills or Jean's engineering skills, but an exact number should not be too difficult to obtain i would think.

Either way, 16.5" to 18" are well within a normal length for a Bali blade.

S.Workman · 30th July 2017, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks. I would actually love a truly accurate accounting if you manage to dig up a ruler. Not doubting either your own approximating skills or Jean's engineering skills, but an exact number should not be too difficult to obtain i would think.

Either way, 16.5" to 18" are well within a normal length for a Bali blade.

From the tip to but excluding the pesi is exactly 18" measured straight down the center. So, not a keris corok? Or, not to most people?

A. G. Maisey · 30th July 2017, 04:26 PM

Jean, I do not doubt that your contact living in Solo may have used the word "corok". As I said, I am aware that some people do use it, but the word "corok" has never had popular usage amongst the circle of people whom I count as teachers and close acquaintances.

I do not know why this is so, but I suspect the word and idea of "corok" is something that is perhaps more popular amongst people with Jakarta, or other city-type background than with people who have kraton associations and associations with the old school m'ranggis.

kronckew · 30th July 2017, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In Solo a common ironic term for a big, heavy keris is "linggis" --- a spud bar (crow bar, post hole bar).

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Workman

Thats great, I love that word play. I still wonder if a my keris qualifies as a corok, although my understanding of the keris is limited to a few books and the perusal of a few museum collections, mostly eclectic and happenstance. And of course what I have been lucky enough to learn here.

gets worse.

lingus (latin) is a tongue/licking, as in i'm a cunning linguist.

lingam is a SEA (hindu) religious depiction of a male generative organ. the pesi can also be described as the lingham that penetrates the (female) ganja.

lingus is slang for a long skinny male organ (urban dictionary)...the opposite
of a chode, a short fat one.

Sajen · 31st July 2017, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Workman

Does anyone have a keris that is in fact a corok that they would be willing to post? I would like to see one long enough to be worn like a sword, if its not too inconvenient.
Or, is the one Jean posted above to be worn in that fashion?

I've heard the term keris corok before in regards for a very long keris. Here a keris pedang from Lombok from my collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...68&postcount=7 taken from this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=keris+pedang

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 31st July 2017, 09:10 AM

Kronckew, with apologies, the word "lingus" and the word "lingam" come from different roots.

Lingus is Latin, as you note, and comes from Old Latin, very probably initially from Proto Italian. I suspect the Sanscrit origin would be "lidhe"; to lick or to lap. Note Javanese krama inggil "lidhah" :- "tongue".

Lingam is standard English, coming from the Sanscrit "Linga" : a sign, emblem, token etc, in the context of Hindu belief, a sign etc inferring Shiva. This is general Hindu belief, not limited to SEA.

In the context of Hindu belief the lingam is a holy symbol, I personally find the profane and/or disrespectful treatment of any holy symbols to be in rather bad taste.

The Javanese words "linggis" and "linggam" share a similar physical form, and may share a similar etymological root, but if this is so, I feel that root would be found in Javanese usage.

The Javanese spelling convention used to create a hard "g" sound is to double the "g", "ng" in a Javanese word acquires a sound similar to the "ng" in "sing'. Thus "lingam" becomes "linggam" in Javanese.

S.Workman · 31st July 2017, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Kronckew, with apologies, the word "lingus" and the word "lingam" come from different roots.

Lingus is Latin, as you note, and comes from Old Latin, very probably initially from Proto Italian. I suspect the Sanscrit origin would be "lidhe"; to lick or to lap. Note Javanese krama inggil "lidhah" :- "tongue".

Lingam is standard English, coming from the Sanscrit "Linga" : a sign, emblem, token etc, in the context of Hindu belief, a sign etc inferring Shiva. This is general Hindu belief, not limited to SEA.

In the context of Hindu belief the lingam is a holy symbol, I personally find the profane and/or disrespectful treatment of any holy symbols to be in rather bad taste.

The Javanese words "linggis" and "linggam" share a similar physical form, and may share a similar etymological root, but if this is so, I feel that root would be found in Javanese usage.

The Javanese spelling convention used to create a hard "g" sound is to double the "g", "ng" in a Javanese word acquires a sound similar to the "ng" in "sing'. Thus "lingam" becomes "linggam" in Javanese.

You are one erudite fellow, did you know that?

A. G. Maisey · 1st August 2017, 12:00 AM

I do try not to be Mr. Workman.

I try to be civilised and well mannered at all times.

However, in this e-world in which we now live, with its e-mail, and e-bay, and e-everything else, I do occasionally slip, so, if my e-rudeness has offended you in any way I offer my most humble e-pologies.

S.Workman · 1st August 2017, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I do try not to be Mr. Workman.

I try to be civilised and well mannered at all times.

However, in this e-world in which we now live, with its e-mail, and e-bay, and e-everything else, I do occasionally slip, so, if my e-rudeness has offended you in any way I offer my most humble e-pologies.

No offense, of course, I was just commenting. You're a national treasure of this one small virtual country.

A. G. Maisey · 1st August 2017, 01:56 AM

Mr. Workman, my previous post was an attempt at humour by deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of erudite.

A previous post had played upon the similar sound of words. I did the same.

29th July 2017, 02:45 AM	#1
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Meaning of corok? I have a rather long Bali keris, and it was recently described to me by a Facebook gentleman as a "keris corok". I look in vain on the web or in my (admittedly minute) library of keris books for this term. Can one of the more knowledgeable people here explain what corok means?

29th July 2017, 10:13 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	A specimen of Javanese blade corok (42.5 cm long excluding the pesi). However I never heard this term applied to Balinese blades. Regards Attached Images

29th July 2017, 03:28 PM	#12
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Does anyone have a keris that is in fact a corok that they would be willing to post? I would like to see one long enough to be worn like a sword, if its not too inconvenient. Or, is the one Jean posted above to be worn in that fashion? Last edited by S.Workman; 29th July 2017 at 06:24 PM.

29th July 2017, 03:12 AM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	A pic of your keris might help. Regards, Kai

29th July 2017, 05:20 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	In Javanese the word "corok" means a stick that you use to poke something with. Some people refer to a longer than normal keris as a "keris corok".

29th July 2017, 10:29 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	In fact Jean, I have very seldom heard it used in Jawa either, but I know some people do use it. Perhaps the gentleman who advised Mr. Workman was Javanese.

29th July 2017, 02:20 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	In Solo a common ironic term for a big, heavy keris is "linggis" --- a spud bar (crow bar, post hole bar).

29th July 2017, 02:33 PM	#9
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	I was under the impression that keris corok were mainly used in Sunda, and generally worn on the left hip owing to their larger size.

29th July 2017, 04:42 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	You stated the keris is 24.5" "overall". How long is just the blade then?

29th July 2017, 08:58 PM	#16
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I used to be an engineer... 1. In metric units the total kris length is 24.5" or 62 cm. 2. Assuming that the blade is flush to the scabbard, the total kris length is the sum of the lengths of the hilt plus exposed pesi, and the gandar. I measured these at 3.5 cm and 12.4 cm respectively on my screen, so 15.9 cm total. 3. I measured the blade length at 10.7 cm on my screen. Thus the blade length should be: (10.7 : 15.9) x 62 = 41.7 cm or 16.5 inches Of course this result is not very accurate... Regards

30th July 2017, 04:26 PM	#19
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Jean, I do not doubt that your contact living in Solo may have used the word "corok". As I said, I am aware that some people do use it, but the word "corok" has never had popular usage amongst the circle of people whom I count as teachers and close acquaintances. I do not know why this is so, but I suspect the word and idea of "corok" is something that is perhaps more popular amongst people with Jakarta, or other city-type background than with people who have kraton associations and associations with the old school m'ranggis.

31st July 2017, 09:10 AM	#22
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Kronckew, with apologies, the word "lingus" and the word "lingam" come from different roots. Lingus is Latin, as you note, and comes from Old Latin, very probably initially from Proto Italian. I suspect the Sanscrit origin would be "lidhe"; to lick or to lap. Note Javanese krama inggil "lidhah" :- "tongue". Lingam is standard English, coming from the Sanscrit "Linga" : a sign, emblem, token etc, in the context of Hindu belief, a sign etc inferring Shiva. This is general Hindu belief, not limited to SEA. In the context of Hindu belief the lingam is a holy symbol, I personally find the profane and/or disrespectful treatment of any holy symbols to be in rather bad taste. The Javanese words "linggis" and "linggam" share a similar physical form, and may share a similar etymological root, but if this is so, I feel that root would be found in Javanese usage. The Javanese spelling convention used to create a hard "g" sound is to double the "g", "ng" in a Javanese word acquires a sound similar to the "ng" in "sing'. Thus "lingam" becomes "linggam" in Javanese.

1st August 2017, 12:00 AM	#24
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	I do try not to be Mr. Workman. I try to be civilised and well mannered at all times. However, in this e-world in which we now live, with its e-mail, and e-bay, and e-everything else, I do occasionally slip, so, if my e-rudeness has offended you in any way I offer my most humble e-pologies.

1st August 2017, 01:56 AM	#26
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Mr. Workman, my previous post was an attempt at humour by deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of erudite. A previous post had played upon the similar sound of words. I did the same.