Assistance for a keris novice

A. G. Maisey · 30th June 2017, 11:02 PM

David's comments pretty much echo what I am thinking.

If I wanted to lift the appearance of this wrongko I would do this:-

1) Remove the pendok. If it does not slide off easily, gently heat the back of it, for this heating I use a gas torch turned right down low, because I can precisely direct the heat, but any source of heat will do, just be careful not to get heat directly on the exposed wood.

2) The problem with the pendok appears to be that a slorok --- the contrasting under layer that can be seen through the pendok open-work --- has been fitted, but fitted very untidily and without making room for it by scraping down the back of the gandar (the long section enclosed by the pendok). Fit the slorok so that its edges do not protrude beyond the edges of the pendok, and remove sufficient wood from the back of the gandar to permit a tidy fit. Easiest way to remove wood from the back of the gandar is by scraping with a small blade.

3) Polish the pendok with a Scotchbrite pad, and finish polish with 0000 steel wool and then an impregnated polishing cloth. It is very difficult now to get polishing cloths specifically for brass and bronze, but a silver polishing cloth will work OK. You can use various grades of steel wool instead of a Scotchbrite pad, but if you use steel wool be very, very certain to get rid of any residue. Don't forget to polish the slorok.

4) Clean the wooden scabbard with a good quality furniture oil, not a wood finishing oil, but the sort of furniture oil that is used on fine furniture, allow to stabilise well after polishing, then use a good quality furniture wax and polish.

5) It might be a good idea to clean out the inside of the scabbard while you're at it, a rifle cleaning rod with .22 bristle brush is good for this, followed by blowing out with compressed air.

6) Put the scabbard back together making sure that it all fits together neatly.

For the hilt:-

1) Remove hilt; you might have some problems with this, if it does not twist off relatively easily tell us and we can pick that problem up later

2) Hand-rub the hilt with a couple of drops of baby oil, brush out the carved sections with a hard tooth brush.

3) Soak the mendak (hilt ring) in white vinegar then brush vigorously with a toothbrush under running water to remove the loosened tarnish and dirt and residual vinegar.

For the blade:-

Probably just a spray with WD40 followed up by application of a light machine oil. Allow to drain off before replacing in scabbard. Actually there are much better ways to long term store a keris than this, but if you wish, that can be addressed later, or you can just trawl back through the old Forum posts, I think this blade storage thing has been gone over a number of times.

Tuban Blades

The very large, old Tuban blades were more than big enough to permit a normal sized keris to be carved from them.

Jean · 1st July 2017, 04:01 PM

Hum, I am frankly not too impressed by this blade and would not like to waste an old Tuban blade to achieve this result!
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 1st July 2017, 09:39 PM

Neither would most other collectors in this day & age, Jean.

But things were different in the past.

If this blade is the result of an alteration, it is most definitely not a recent alteration, its old.

As for untouched Tuban blades of the giganticous ilk, well, they have all but disappeared, and when they do surface they bring a very good price, because of their rarity, a rarity caused in the large part by being altered to satisfy the market.

Something similar happened with Balinese blades, nearer to our own time.

Bjorn · 1st July 2017, 09:52 PM

Does anyone have a photo of an actual Tuban blade? Preferably side by side with a blade of average size. I don't recall ever seeing one before, even though I've seen the name Tuban used quite often.

shayde78 · 3rd July 2017, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Neither would most other collectors in this day & age, Jean.

But things were different in the past.

If this blade is the result of an alteration, it is most definitely not a recent alteration, its old.

As for untouched Tuban blades of the giganticous ilk, well, they have all but disappeared, and when they do surface they bring a very good price, because of their rarity, a rarity caused in the large part by being altered to satisfy the market.

Something similar happened with Balinese blades, nearer to our own time.

AG,
You state that the blade is old with such certainty. I would love to learn how such a determination is made from the photos provided. Is it the pamor, the condition, or just hard earned experience?

Also, to piggyback on yuuzan, are there pics available of a legit Tuban blade?

A. G. Maisey · 3rd July 2017, 08:12 AM

A post in the wrong hole.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd July 2017, 08:16 AM

Its just experience Shadye.

+60 years worth.

That plus the fact that I've handled literally thousands of blades and have been taught by probably the best and most knowledgeable teachers of their generation, two of whom were Surakarta Karaton Empus.

There is a good Tuban blade shown in this thread, and Jean has shown a pic of one of the super-size Tuban blades:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22862

shayde78 · 6th July 2017, 03:04 AM

Thanks again, AG.
I had found that turban thread too. Some properly beautiful examples.

There isn't much to provide scale in those pics...but it appears the blades have a more or less uniform lozenge-shaped cross section. That seems different from the piece in question, no? Could mine have been subjected to some serious stock removal?

1st July 2017, 04:01 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hum, I am frankly not too impressed by this blade and would not like to waste an old Tuban blade to achieve this result! Regards Last edited by Jean; 1st July 2017 at 08:40 PM.

30th June 2017, 11:02 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	David's comments pretty much echo what I am thinking. If I wanted to lift the appearance of this wrongko I would do this:- 1) Remove the pendok. If it does not slide off easily, gently heat the back of it, for this heating I use a gas torch turned right down low, because I can precisely direct the heat, but any source of heat will do, just be careful not to get heat directly on the exposed wood. 2) The problem with the pendok appears to be that a slorok --- the contrasting under layer that can be seen through the pendok open-work --- has been fitted, but fitted very untidily and without making room for it by scraping down the back of the gandar (the long section enclosed by the pendok). Fit the slorok so that its edges do not protrude beyond the edges of the pendok, and remove sufficient wood from the back of the gandar to permit a tidy fit. Easiest way to remove wood from the back of the gandar is by scraping with a small blade. 3) Polish the pendok with a Scotchbrite pad, and finish polish with 0000 steel wool and then an impregnated polishing cloth. It is very difficult now to get polishing cloths specifically for brass and bronze, but a silver polishing cloth will work OK. You can use various grades of steel wool instead of a Scotchbrite pad, but if you use steel wool be very, very certain to get rid of any residue. Don't forget to polish the slorok. 4) Clean the wooden scabbard with a good quality furniture oil, not a wood finishing oil, but the sort of furniture oil that is used on fine furniture, allow to stabilise well after polishing, then use a good quality furniture wax and polish. 5) It might be a good idea to clean out the inside of the scabbard while you're at it, a rifle cleaning rod with .22 bristle brush is good for this, followed by blowing out with compressed air. 6) Put the scabbard back together making sure that it all fits together neatly. For the hilt:- 1) Remove hilt; you might have some problems with this, if it does not twist off relatively easily tell us and we can pick that problem up later 2) Hand-rub the hilt with a couple of drops of baby oil, brush out the carved sections with a hard tooth brush. 3) Soak the mendak (hilt ring) in white vinegar then brush vigorously with a toothbrush under running water to remove the loosened tarnish and dirt and residual vinegar. For the blade:- Probably just a spray with WD40 followed up by application of a light machine oil. Allow to drain off before replacing in scabbard. Actually there are much better ways to long term store a keris than this, but if you wish, that can be addressed later, or you can just trawl back through the old Forum posts, I think this blade storage thing has been gone over a number of times. Tuban Blades The very large, old Tuban blades were more than big enough to permit a normal sized keris to be carved from them.

1st July 2017, 09:39 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Neither would most other collectors in this day & age, Jean. But things were different in the past. If this blade is the result of an alteration, it is most definitely not a recent alteration, its old. As for untouched Tuban blades of the giganticous ilk, well, they have all but disappeared, and when they do surface they bring a very good price, because of their rarity, a rarity caused in the large part by being altered to satisfy the market. Something similar happened with Balinese blades, nearer to our own time.

1st July 2017, 09:52 PM	#4
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	Does anyone have a photo of an actual Tuban blade? Preferably side by side with a blade of average size. I don't recall ever seeing one before, even though I've seen the name Tuban used quite often.

3rd July 2017, 08:12 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	A post in the wrong hole.

3rd July 2017, 08:16 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Its just experience Shadye. +60 years worth. That plus the fact that I've handled literally thousands of blades and have been taught by probably the best and most knowledgeable teachers of their generation, two of whom were Surakarta Karaton Empus. There is a good Tuban blade shown in this thread, and Jean has shown a pic of one of the super-size Tuban blades:- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22862

6th July 2017, 03:04 AM	#8
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thanks again, AG. I had found that turban thread too. Some properly beautiful examples. There isn't much to provide scale in those pics...but it appears the blades have a more or less uniform lozenge-shaped cross section. That seems different from the piece in question, no? Could mine have been subjected to some serious stock removal?