An unusual blade

[Jean]

The blade has apparently no pamor pattern(?) and it does not clearly look Bugis to me (but Bugis influenced). I never saw a similar blade identified as Sumatran but who knows?
Best regards

[David]

hmmm...i would have placed it on the Peninsula.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

hmmm...i would have placed it on the Peninsula.

Me too in absence of any similar reference from Indonesia... It would help to see the hilt & scabbard if they are original or at least old of course.

[A. G. Maisey]

Gavin, does the "differential heat treatment" produce dark edges and a lighter coloured blade centre, or a dark front section of the blade, with a lighter coloured base?

[Rick]

After looking at it off and on today, I get a peninsular feel from it also.
I'm not sure myself when what seems to be a forging flaw (if my eyes don't deceive me) becomes pamor.
If that's the original patina you've got to wonder if a stain would be out of place.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Gavin, does the "differential heat treatment" produce dark edges and a lighter coloured blade centre, or a dark front section of the blade, with a lighter coloured base?

Hi Alan,

It is the later, dark front section, lighter base.

Gavin

[Laowang]

To me, the non-contrasting pamor and fullered blade would indicate a peninsular origin. To hedge one's bets, one could easily add "Bugis-influenced" to that statement.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Gavin.

Yeah, that is the normal thing we see, it is just due to where the immersion into the quench stopped, front hard, back soft.

I asked the question, because sometimes the edges of the blade will show dark and the central area greyish, which indicates pamor of some sort or another , usually just pamor sanak.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Laowang

To me, the non-contrasting pamor and fullered blade would indicate a peninsular origin. To hedge one's bets, one could easily add "Bugis-influenced" to that statement.

Thank you for coming in Laowang. Perhaps Bugis Patani?

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

David, Rick,

My initial thoughts when it arrived were north east coast peninsular, but I soon forgot the features of the Gandik and was lost in the broad bevelled edges and followed another path and have been lost in Sumatra.
Given the almost mono-steel appearance and the nature of the heat treatment, these points are typical of Patani through to Terengganu.

As you suspect, it is likely better placed in Malaysia.

Gavin

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

David, Rick,

My initial thoughts when it arrived were north east coast peninsular, but I soon forgot the features of the Gandik and was lost in the broad bevelled edges and followed another path and have been lost in Sumatra.
Given the almost mono-steel appearance and the nature of the heat treatment, these points are typical of Patani through to Terengganu.

As you suspect, it is likely better placed in Malaysia.

Gavin

From other places too.
Iirc this was collected in Makassar, 1920's.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Jean

The blade has apparently no pamor pattern(?) and it does not clearly look Bugis to me (but Bugis influenced). I never saw a similar blade identified as Sumatran but who knows?
Best regards

Hi Jean,

Have you ever seen a similar blade with these features?

I have not treated the blade in any way buy there could be something subtle in the blade when I give consideration to its typical layered gonjo.
Under a bright light there holds some potential throughout the blades surfaces, but nothing in the traditional pamor sense, but certainly a clear differential heat treatment that I cannot capture with the camera...

With regards to pamor and this blade; the single open line running the length of one face only (the image presented) can be considered a pamor. With reference to Newbold's work and other keris I have seen and own, this occurrence could be considered as pamor tiga alif, an occurrence which I doubt is random as I do not believe random was ever the desire in any keris forging.

I've another very large old sepakol blade with a rather mono-steel looking blade but three perfectly spaced and placed openings in one face only, (the same face as this keris I present above) and in the same open manner, albiet more precise in the other keris...it is Alif pamor.

Gavin