Spanish Model 1840 Cavalry Sword ?

Gonzalo G · 13th June 2017, 06:02 PM

I don´t have definitive knowledge about this stamp, so I can only speculate. The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition. In 1873 was proclamated the first Spanish republic. The new republican government ordered the suppression of all names related with the monarchy. The Regiment of Husssars of the Pincess changed its denomination to Regiment of Villarobledo (Regimiento de Villarobledo). This the initials RV could mean just this name, meanwhile the crown could be the original mark.
Regards

fernando · 13th June 2017, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

...The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition...

Good shot, Gonzalo.

drac2k · 13th June 2017, 08:21 PM

Thank you for the very helpful information that you have provided and while your explanation of the "RV," stamp makes sense, I feel that based on your mention of the suppression of all things related to the monarchy that the crown would have been struck or disfigured, certainly not placed side by side.

Gonzalo G · 13th June 2017, 09:22 PM

It could be argued several explanations for the maintenance of the crown, from economic and logistic, to political. In an ideal situation, the crown could be erased, but not necessarily. If I continue speculating, we must take in account: first, that the crown was part of the coat of arms of the first Spanish republic, so it was not indispensable to erase it; second, that the erasing would have more cost and delayings in their delivery back to the cavalry units, in a situation of eminent military danger, and third, the republic only lasted less than two years, with the government embattled amid chaos and financial paucity, which could explain a hasty re-marking of the swords. And don´t forget that an important part of the army still retained their loyalty to the monarchy, as it was proved by the coup d´etat from the General Arsenio Martínez Campos, which conducted to the Borbonic restoration in 1874. It would not be strange that the army only reluctantly re-marked the swords without erasing the crown, specially without the close supervision from the weak government.

Of course, all this is only speculation, but it can point to a possible explanation, in absence of more solid factual/documental data. Take it as a work hypothesis to start with, meanwhile it can be found more information on this subjet.
Regards

drac2k · 13th June 2017, 09:55 PM

Thanks again for your well thought out reply.

drac2k · 19th June 2017, 04:18 AM

The crown with the "RV," under it has been driving me little nuts lately so how about a crazy theory?
In the Spanish Colonial Philippines in 1897, the troop numbers were approximately 26,032 Spaniards, 17,032 Native troops, and 2857 Volunteers. The One Battalion Carabineros were volunteer riflemen comprised of 14 Spanish Officers and 415 Native troops.Volunteer Regiment in Spanish is Regimiento de Voluntarios, hence (maybe, hopefully, possibly}, "RV;"does this make any sense?

Andreas · 19th June 2017, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

The crown with the "RV," under it has been driving me little nuts lately so how about a crazy theory?
In the Spanish Colonial Philippines in 1897, the troop numbers were approximately 26,032 Spaniards, 17,032 Native troops, and 2857 Volunteers. The One Battalion Carabineros were volunteer riflemen comprised of 14 Spanish Officers and 415 Native troops.Volunteer Regiment in Spanish is Regimiento de Voluntarios, hence (maybe, hopefully, possibly}, "RV;"does this make any sense?

The Mod. 1840 was replaced by the Mod.1860, and that by the Mod.1895, so I suppose it is unlikely that it was still in use in 1897. But there is the Regimiento Villaviciosa, a Lancers Regiment during the 1850s and 1860s, today a Light Armoured Cavalry Unit.
Andreas

13th June 2017, 06:02 PM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	I don´t have definitive knowledge about this stamp, so I can only speculate. The crown seems to be an independent mark from the initials. They are not made by the same tool, otherwise the crown and the initials would be more close and centered with respect to each other. It is possible that the RV initials are a latest addition. In 1873 was proclamated the first Spanish republic. The new republican government ordered the suppression of all names related with the monarchy. The Regiment of Husssars of the Pincess changed its denomination to Regiment of Villarobledo (Regimiento de Villarobledo). This the initials RV could mean just this name, meanwhile the crown could be the original mark. Regards

13th June 2017, 08:21 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	Thank you for the very helpful information that you have provided and while your explanation of the "RV," stamp makes sense, I feel that based on your mention of the suppression of all things related to the monarchy that the crown would have been struck or disfigured, certainly not placed side by side.

13th June 2017, 09:22 PM	#4
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	It could be argued several explanations for the maintenance of the crown, from economic and logistic, to political. In an ideal situation, the crown could be erased, but not necessarily. If I continue speculating, we must take in account: first, that the crown was part of the coat of arms of the first Spanish republic, so it was not indispensable to erase it; second, that the erasing would have more cost and delayings in their delivery back to the cavalry units, in a situation of eminent military danger, and third, the republic only lasted less than two years, with the government embattled amid chaos and financial paucity, which could explain a hasty re-marking of the swords. And don´t forget that an important part of the army still retained their loyalty to the monarchy, as it was proved by the coup d´etat from the General Arsenio Martínez Campos, which conducted to the Borbonic restoration in 1874. It would not be strange that the army only reluctantly re-marked the swords without erasing the crown, specially without the close supervision from the weak government. Of course, all this is only speculation, but it can point to a possible explanation, in absence of more solid factual/documental data. Take it as a work hypothesis to start with, meanwhile it can be found more information on this subjet. Regards

13th June 2017, 09:55 PM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	Thanks again for your well thought out reply.

19th June 2017, 04:18 AM	#6
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	The crown with the "RV," under it has been driving me little nuts lately so how about a crazy theory? In the Spanish Colonial Philippines in 1897, the troop numbers were approximately 26,032 Spaniards, 17,032 Native troops, and 2857 Volunteers. The One Battalion Carabineros were volunteer riflemen comprised of 14 Spanish Officers and 415 Native troops.Volunteer Regiment in Spanish is Regimiento de Voluntarios, hence (maybe, hopefully, possibly}, "RV;"does this make any sense?