Unusual and atypical Javanese keris wrongko/warangka

alexish · 13th June 2017, 02:50 AM

I hereby attach more pictures of unusual or atypical Javanese wrongko/warangka for comments.

By the way, what should be the correct spelling of wrongko/warangka? Which of these two spellings is closer to the original Javanese pronounciation?

David · 13th June 2017, 04:27 AM

I spell it wrongko. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, there have always been occasional atypical sheath patterns, though some of what you show here is not unique, only rarer forms.

alexish · 13th June 2017, 08:01 AM

I hereby attach some more images of atypical Javanese wrongkos. Are all these Cirebon-style?

David · 13th June 2017, 02:28 PM

No Alexish, these are not "atypical" at all. They are typical of a certain area of Jawa at a certain time.

alexish · 13th June 2017, 02:43 PM

Apologies, I should have used the words "uncommon" or "rarer" forms.

Jean · 13th June 2017, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

I hereby attach some more images of atypical Javanese wrongkos. Are all these Cirebon-style?

From top to bottom, and left to right:
1. (Corrected) A probably recent version of tumanggal wrongko from Cirebon
2. Peculiar style from East Java or North Java
3. Tegal style
4 to 6: Capil (?) style from East Java/ Madura
7. Tegal style
8. Cirebon style

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 14th June 2017, 05:26 AM

The keris shown below are from my own collection.

The blades will stay in the scabbards, please do not ask for them to be removed.

Keris numbers 1, 2, 3 were collected in Jawa almost 100 years ago. They have been in my family since then.

Keris numbers 1, 2, 4 have had geographic point of origin of the wrongko verified. This verification was done in 1978 by a noble from Cirebon who was a relative of a close friend, and who had a reputation as an ahli keris.

I verified keris number 3 during a visit to Madura in 1990, however, prior to this it had been verified as Madura, popular in villages around Sumenep, and the ornamentation usually carved by the owner, this initial verification was given by a relative who had been born in and who grew up in Madura.

Keris #5 has been run past a lot of knowledgeable people. responses have been varied, but most people seem to think it is Tegal

#1. Collected North Coast Jawa, probably Pekalongan, in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. However, this form is found in several different variations which seem to rely more on period of production than anything else, it seems to be distributed all along the North Coast and into East Jawa at least as far as Malang

#2 Collected in Cirebon in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. This is a variation of the Cirebon Tanggalan form. Pendok replaced during 1980's.

#3 Collected in Surabaya in about 1920, this is a Madura form.

#4 Bought at auction in Sydney during 1960's, supposedly collected in Batavia (Jakarta) pre-WWII, identified as Tegal in 1978

#5 Collected in Surakarta in 1975, identified as Banyumas, Tegal, Cirebon, Banten, Jawa Timur, Madura --- and probably a few other places as well, by people who should have known what they were talking about, but at least some perhaps did not. Based upon frequency of response, I think this is North Coast Jawa, most likely Tegal.

Styles 1, 2 and 4 above were still being made until about 15 years ago. I have had more than a few of the more recent versions of these forms. Regrettably the maker passed away about 15 years ago, he was already very old.

The keris shown below are from my own collection.

The blades will stay in the scabbards, please do not ask for them to be removed.

Keris numbers 1, 2, 3 were collected in Jawa almost 100 years ago. They have been in my family since then.

Keris numbers 1, 2, 4 have had geographic point of origin of the wrongko verified. This verification was done in 1978 by a noble from Cirebon who was a relative of a close friend, and who had a reputation as an ahli keris.

I verified keris number 3 during a visit to Madura in 1990, however, prior to this it had been verified as Madura, popular in villages around Sumenep, and the ornamentation usually carved by the owner, this initial verification was given by a relative who had been born in and who grew up in Madura.

Keris #5 has been run past a lot of knowledgeable people. responses have been varied, but most people seem to think it is Tegal

#1. Collected North Coast Jawa, probably Pekalongan, in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. However, this form in several different variations which seem to rely more on period of production than anything else, it seems to be distributed all along the North Coast and into East Jawa at least as far as Malang

#2 Collected in Cirebon in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. This is a variation of the Cirebon Wulan Tumanggal form. Pendok replaced during 1980's.

#3 Collected in Surabaya in about 1920, this is a Madura form.

#4 Bought at auction in Sydney during 1960's, supposedly collected in Batavia (Jakarta) pre-WWII, identified as Tegal in 1978

#5 Collected in Surakarta in 1975, identified as Banyumas, Tegal, Cirebon, Banten, Jawa Timur, Madura --- and probably a few other places as well, by people who should have known what they were talking about, but at least some perhaps did not. Based upon frequency of response, I think this is North Coast Jawa, most likely Tegal.

Styles 1, 2 and 4 above were still being made until about 15 years ago. I have had more than a few of the more recent versions of these forms. Regrettably the maker passed away about 15 years ago, he was already very old.

Jean, you have identified wrongko # 2 as a "fantasy" style, as you can see from the old example I have posted, this is incorrect.
I know that any of us are only as good as our informants, and this is the reason that I have always tried to find personal informants who are regarded as authorities amongst local people in Jawa. Books are often not all that reliable, and the number of people who really know about keris is becoming less with every passing day.

alexish · 14th June 2017, 07:17 AM

There are some subtle differences in the Tegal wrongko forms on the left and right, in the curvature of the edges. Is this difference due to different time periods. It appears that the older form on the right has less pronounced curvature?

Jean · 14th June 2017, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, you have identified wrongko # 2 as a "fantasy" style, as you can see from the old example I have posted, this is incorrect.
I know that any of us are only as good as our informants, and this is the reason that I have always tried to find personal informants who are regarded as authorities amongst local people in Jawa. Books are often not all that reliable, and the number of people who really know about keris is becoming less with every passing day.

Thank you Alan and I have corrected my post accordingly.
Regarding your wrongko # 5, I have often read that it was a variation of the daunan style from Madura, without guarantee of course.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 14th June 2017, 09:30 AM

Yes, it could be Madura, but I've spent a lot of time in East Jawa, and more than a little time in Madura, and I have not seen this style or similar in any museum displays, or in use. The usual Madura ladrang that is seen is capu kagok.

I cannot recall seeing this style in a reference anywhere, and as I said in my post, I've run it past a lot of people who I reckon ought to know --- if it is knowable --- and I don't think any of them did know, they only guessed.

But having said that, my own opinion is that for maybe the last 100 years every area on the North Coast all the way through to East Jawa is so mixed up that nobody really is 100% sure of anything. This is not Central Jawa that we're talking about where the kratons still have certain standards and rules that they enforce.

14th June 2017, 05:26 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	The keris shown below are from my own collection. The blades will stay in the scabbards, please do not ask for them to be removed. Keris numbers 1, 2, 3 were collected in Jawa almost 100 years ago. They have been in my family since then. Keris numbers 1, 2, 4 have had geographic point of origin of the wrongko verified. This verification was done in 1978 by a noble from Cirebon who was a relative of a close friend, and who had a reputation as an ahli keris. I verified keris number 3 during a visit to Madura in 1990, however, prior to this it had been verified as Madura, popular in villages around Sumenep, and the ornamentation usually carved by the owner, this initial verification was given by a relative who had been born in and who grew up in Madura. Keris #5 has been run past a lot of knowledgeable people. responses have been varied, but most people seem to think it is Tegal #1. Collected North Coast Jawa, probably Pekalongan, in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. However, this form is found in several different variations which seem to rely more on period of production than anything else, it seems to be distributed all along the North Coast and into East Jawa at least as far as Malang #2 Collected in Cirebon in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. This is a variation of the Cirebon Tanggalan form. Pendok replaced during 1980's. #3 Collected in Surabaya in about 1920, this is a Madura form. #4 Bought at auction in Sydney during 1960's, supposedly collected in Batavia (Jakarta) pre-WWII, identified as Tegal in 1978 #5 Collected in Surakarta in 1975, identified as Banyumas, Tegal, Cirebon, Banten, Jawa Timur, Madura --- and probably a few other places as well, by people who should have known what they were talking about, but at least some perhaps did not. Based upon frequency of response, I think this is North Coast Jawa, most likely Tegal. Styles 1, 2 and 4 above were still being made until about 15 years ago. I have had more than a few of the more recent versions of these forms. Regrettably the maker passed away about 15 years ago, he was already very old. The keris shown below are from my own collection. The blades will stay in the scabbards, please do not ask for them to be removed. Keris numbers 1, 2, 3 were collected in Jawa almost 100 years ago. They have been in my family since then. Keris numbers 1, 2, 4 have had geographic point of origin of the wrongko verified. This verification was done in 1978 by a noble from Cirebon who was a relative of a close friend, and who had a reputation as an ahli keris. I verified keris number 3 during a visit to Madura in 1990, however, prior to this it had been verified as Madura, popular in villages around Sumenep, and the ornamentation usually carved by the owner, this initial verification was given by a relative who had been born in and who grew up in Madura. Keris #5 has been run past a lot of knowledgeable people. responses have been varied, but most people seem to think it is Tegal #1. Collected North Coast Jawa, probably Pekalongan, in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. However, this form in several different variations which seem to rely more on period of production than anything else, it seems to be distributed all along the North Coast and into East Jawa at least as far as Malang #2 Collected in Cirebon in about 1920, verified as Cirebon in 1978. This is a variation of the Cirebon Wulan Tumanggal form. Pendok replaced during 1980's. #3 Collected in Surabaya in about 1920, this is a Madura form. #4 Bought at auction in Sydney during 1960's, supposedly collected in Batavia (Jakarta) pre-WWII, identified as Tegal in 1978 #5 Collected in Surakarta in 1975, identified as Banyumas, Tegal, Cirebon, Banten, Jawa Timur, Madura --- and probably a few other places as well, by people who should have known what they were talking about, but at least some perhaps did not. Based upon frequency of response, I think this is North Coast Jawa, most likely Tegal. Styles 1, 2 and 4 above were still being made until about 15 years ago. I have had more than a few of the more recent versions of these forms. Regrettably the maker passed away about 15 years ago, he was already very old. Jean, you have identified wrongko # 2 as a "fantasy" style, as you can see from the old example I have posted, this is incorrect. I know that any of us are only as good as our informants, and this is the reason that I have always tried to find personal informants who are regarded as authorities amongst local people in Jawa. Books are often not all that reliable, and the number of people who really know about keris is becoming less with every passing day. Attached Images Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 14th June 2017 at 05:49 AM.

14th June 2017, 07:17 AM	#8
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Subtle differences in Tegal form There are some subtle differences in the Tegal wrongko forms on the left and right, in the curvature of the edges. Is this difference due to different time periods. It appears that the older form on the right has less pronounced curvature? Attached Images

13th June 2017, 02:50 AM	#1
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	More pictures of atypical wrongko for comments I hereby attach more pictures of unusual or atypical Javanese wrongko/warangka for comments. By the way, what should be the correct spelling of wrongko/warangka? Which of these two spellings is closer to the original Javanese pronounciation? Attached Images

13th June 2017, 04:27 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I spell it wrongko. Your mileage may vary. Yes, there have always been occasional atypical sheath patterns, though some of what you show here is not unique, only rarer forms.

13th June 2017, 08:01 AM	#3
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Cirebon wrongko forms I hereby attach some more images of atypical Javanese wrongkos. Are all these Cirebon-style? Attached Images

13th June 2017, 02:28 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	No Alexish, these are not "atypical" at all. They are typical of a certain area of Jawa at a certain time.

13th June 2017, 02:43 PM	#5
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	"uncommon" or "rarer" forms Apologies, I should have used the words "uncommon" or "rarer" forms.

14th June 2017, 09:30 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes, it could be Madura, but I've spent a lot of time in East Jawa, and more than a little time in Madura, and I have not seen this style or similar in any museum displays, or in use. The usual Madura ladrang that is seen is capu kagok. I cannot recall seeing this style in a reference anywhere, and as I said in my post, I've run it past a lot of people who I reckon ought to know --- if it is knowable --- and I don't think any of them did know, they only guessed. But having said that, my own opinion is that for maybe the last 100 years every area on the North Coast all the way through to East Jawa is so mixed up that nobody really is 100% sure of anything. This is not Central Jawa that we're talking about where the kratons still have certain standards and rules that they enforce.