American Sword with 1803 Style Cross Guard

Hotspur · 19th May 2017, 01:43 PM

RE Widmann and the Mowbray book. The example is but one sword, and a suffix to the American maker chapters, not part of the main Widmann chapter. It is easy to lump a page into the pages before or after but it is important to look at each evidence carefully.

Paraphrasing that single page (without going to open the book), that crested bckstrp shown is listed as having a possibility of American furbishing. Bazelon, in an old ASoAC article shows another single example marked to Widmann on the guard.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9A...ew?usp=sharing
British? Maybe. Composite? Composite done by Widmann? A wholly manufactured product of Germany? Widmann did seem prefer German sourced parts. However, I digress. Do though note Bazelon's brief on trade blades.

The Germans copied the British, the British copied Germans, the US bought from both and France (many made in Germany), the British copied the American Ames gaper/screamer, the Germans copied Widmann traits; on and on.

The use of Warranted on Solingen blades seen until iron proof, then proved, then eisenhauer; of course a marketing ploy.

Cheers

GC

Hotspur · 19th May 2017, 03:22 PM

Another gasp here regarding eagles with backstraps. It should be wholly apparent that the introduction of swords with backstraps were nothing new by the advent of the eagle pommel swords. The mechanics of them simply afford a much stronger weapon for practical use.

IIRC, it is in discussion opposite the Dyer eagle pommel where Mowbray mentions the aberration of that same eagle type with backstraps thought to be postwar. Confusion now arrives to me in acquiring one such with a clearly marked Woolley Deakin&Co. That could be an argument (1806ish) that my example disagrees with Mowbray's thoughts but at the same time, my eagle may well have been cast in America and a Woolley blade used later on. It is very hard to be sure, so we are left with trends and other examples of the form.

Was my eagle below assembled in England or in upstate New York?

Cheers

GC

Jim McDougall · 19th May 2017, 03:39 PM

Very well explained Glen. Again I very much appreciate your thorough and detailed presentations along with explanations in reasoning out the many assumptions and deviations which may mislead researchers less familiar with these forms.......including myself. Thank you again, it is great to learn more on these important eagle head swords.

19th May 2017, 03:22 PM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 528	Another gasp here regarding eagles with backstraps. It should be wholly apparent that the introduction of swords with backstraps were nothing new by the advent of the eagle pommel swords. The mechanics of them simply afford a much stronger weapon for practical use. IIRC, it is in discussion opposite the Dyer eagle pommel where Mowbray mentions the aberration of that same eagle type with backstraps thought to be postwar. Confusion now arrives to me in acquiring one such with a clearly marked Woolley Deakin&Co. That could be an argument (1806ish) that my example disagrees with Mowbray's thoughts but at the same time, my eagle may well have been cast in America and a Woolley blade used later on. It is very hard to be sure, so we are left with trends and other examples of the form. Was my eagle below assembled in England or in upstate New York? Cheers GC Attached Images

19th May 2017, 01:43 PM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 528	RE Widmann and the Mowbray book. The example is but one sword, and a suffix to the American maker chapters, not part of the main Widmann chapter. It is easy to lump a page into the pages before or after but it is important to look at each evidence carefully. Paraphrasing that single page (without going to open the book), that crested bckstrp shown is listed as having a possibility of American furbishing. Bazelon, in an old ASoAC article shows another single example marked to Widmann on the guard. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9A...ew?usp=sharing British? Maybe. Composite? Composite done by Widmann? A wholly manufactured product of Germany? Widmann did seem prefer German sourced parts. However, I digress. Do though note Bazelon's brief on trade blades. The Germans copied the British, the British copied Germans, the US bought from both and France (many made in Germany), the British copied the American Ames gaper/screamer, the Germans copied Widmann traits; on and on. The use of Warranted on Solingen blades seen until iron proof, then proved, then eisenhauer; of course a marketing ploy. Cheers GC

19th May 2017, 03:39 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Very well explained Glen. Again I very much appreciate your thorough and detailed presentations along with explanations in reasoning out the many assumptions and deviations which may mislead researchers less familiar with these forms.......including myself. Thank you again, it is great to learn more on these important eagle head swords.