Help identify Klewang

Gustav · 10th May 2017, 09:20 PM

I had the same impression as Willem.

A. G. Maisey · 10th May 2017, 11:07 PM

The problem with the word "klewang, kelewang" is that it has a different meaning for collectors, especially collectors outside the area of origin of the klewang, than for native speakers of Malay, Bahasa Indonesia and Javanese.

In all three of these languages a klewang is defined as a sword, and in BI and Javanese it must be broad and curved. According to Wilkinson it was very much favoured by the people from Aceh.

But my understanding of the way in which collectors use the word is that it can be tagged onto just about any short, heavy tool/weapon used for chopping.

In respect of the item under discussion here, it is probably correctly termed "madhik". This is a very ancient Balinese tool/weapon:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21896

Gustav · 10th May 2017, 11:48 PM

Now there is another a little bit mysterious Bali-Sulawesi specimen, with similar handle -

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=187966

Blade looks Balinese, sheath - Sulawesi. Handle isn't really faceted, but close.

Now has somebody a "Matana knife" in he's collection?

.................................................. .............

What leads me to think the handle (of our "Mardhik") isn't original is the way blade is mounted to it - at the very upper part; the handle looks to big.

Or has somebody seen such handles on Bali? That would make things easier.

A. G. Maisey · 11th May 2017, 01:48 AM

Actually Gustav, to me, the entire thing looks Javanese, the hilt, the hand work, the pamor and especially the kembang kacang --- something I've only ever seen on things other than keris in a Javanese context.

I only know of the mardhik as a tool now, but it is obvious that it had a weapon function in old Bali.

If I had to make a guess on geographic point of origin, I'd probably give it as "possibly East Jawa". It would be a guess.

I tend to agree that the hilt is an addition, I doubt very much that it is original to this blade.

David · 11th May 2017, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The problem with the word "klewang, kelewang" is that it has a different meaning for collectors, especially collectors outside the area of origin of the klewang, than for native speakers of Malay, Bahasa Indonesia and Javanese.

In all three of these languages a klewang is defined as a sword, and in BI and Javanese it must be broad and curved. According to Wilkinson it was very much favoured by the people from Aceh.

But my understanding of the way in which collectors use the word is that it can be tagged onto just about any short, heavy tool/weapon used for chopping.

In respect of the item under discussion here, it is probably correctly termed "madhik". This is a very ancient Balinese tool/weapon:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21896

Thanks Alan. That is very helpful information.

Gustav · 11th May 2017, 11:02 AM

Alan, regarding KK I agree. On other hand, till now I never have seen such a groove on something Wedhung-like outside of Bali.

Another place, which comes into mind seeing such anomalies, is Lombok (which Kai mentioned). On page 339 in "Keris di Lombok" there are pictures of spearheads of similar bent shape, one, perhaps two of them (the picture quality is terrible) most likely with back groove. On page before a Golok, which isn't bent, yet otherwise has perhaps the closest blade shape, with back groove too.

This object in question so obviously doesn't fit in any parameters, that it almost seems to be made to rise curiosity (and perhaps its price).

10th May 2017, 11:48 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Now there is another a little bit mysterious Bali-Sulawesi specimen, with similar handle - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=187966 Blade looks Balinese, sheath - Sulawesi. Handle isn't really faceted, but close. Now has somebody a "Matana knife" in he's collection? .................................................. ............. What leads me to think the handle (of our "Mardhik") isn't original is the way blade is mounted to it - at the very upper part; the handle looks to big. Or has somebody seen such handles on Bali? That would make things easier. Attached Images

10th May 2017, 09:20 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	I had the same impression as Willem.

10th May 2017, 11:07 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	The problem with the word "klewang, kelewang" is that it has a different meaning for collectors, especially collectors outside the area of origin of the klewang, than for native speakers of Malay, Bahasa Indonesia and Javanese. In all three of these languages a klewang is defined as a sword, and in BI and Javanese it must be broad and curved. According to Wilkinson it was very much favoured by the people from Aceh. But my understanding of the way in which collectors use the word is that it can be tagged onto just about any short, heavy tool/weapon used for chopping. In respect of the item under discussion here, it is probably correctly termed "madhik". This is a very ancient Balinese tool/weapon:- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21896

11th May 2017, 01:48 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Actually Gustav, to me, the entire thing looks Javanese, the hilt, the hand work, the pamor and especially the kembang kacang --- something I've only ever seen on things other than keris in a Javanese context. I only know of the mardhik as a tool now, but it is obvious that it had a weapon function in old Bali. If I had to make a guess on geographic point of origin, I'd probably give it as "possibly East Jawa". It would be a guess. I tend to agree that the hilt is an addition, I doubt very much that it is original to this blade.

11th May 2017, 11:02 AM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Alan, regarding KK I agree. On other hand, till now I never have seen such a groove on something Wedhung-like outside of Bali. Another place, which comes into mind seeing such anomalies, is Lombok (which Kai mentioned). On page 339 in "Keris di Lombok" there are pictures of spearheads of similar bent shape, one, perhaps two of them (the picture quality is terrible) most likely with back groove. On page before a Golok, which isn't bent, yet otherwise has perhaps the closest blade shape, with back groove too. This object in question so obviously doesn't fit in any parameters, that it almost seems to be made to rise curiosity (and perhaps its price).