Comments will be appreciated, Berger collection

fernando · 2nd May 2017, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Fourth one a bandit (?) knife, with a motto probably with a couple misspelings… or in some Italian dialect. It could mean something like “don’t trust me if you have no heart” … but don’t trust my translation either. Also nice to see close ups of the guy in the blade ricasso.

Somehow it looks like its hilt work resembles that of first example from South Italy ... you know, where the grip meets the blade.

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Marcus · 2nd May 2017, 08:29 PM

I will certainly post some decent pictures once I have them in hand!

corrado26 · 3rd May 2017, 07:35 AM

In my opinion item 2 to item 4 came from Liguria/northern Italy. This typ of daggers came up in the 17. and 18. century in Genua and was to be found on the isles (Sardinia/Korsika) and partly in south eastern Spain.
corrado26

fernando · 3rd May 2017, 07:30 PM

As i said, when i acquired mine, it was assumed to be from Meridional Italy.
I am aware of these knives being also credited to Liguria but, according to known Italian websites (and not only), they are attributed to Southern Italy. I ignore whether there are similar works from both regions with only slight variations or this is a dispute between opinion sources. Let them both be happy

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Here are pictures of mine, if Marcus doesn't mind

.

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Marcus · 3rd May 2017, 07:47 PM

Very nice.
The auction was sponsored by San Giorgia, who also sell a book " Il Costello Genovese" that was mentioned in this thread.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=Coltello

I have a copy on order We have Italian Post-Doc in the lab who should be able to help me with the text.

fernando · 4th May 2017, 11:20 AM

I should be nice to learn how to distinguish Ligurian (Genovese) knives from those of the South. Interesting to note that Sardinia, where the Genovese type seems to have reached (per corrado), is so Meridional as Southern Italy mainland. Actually another Italian auctioner also from the North (Czerny's), from where my example (indirectly) came, treats these types as Southern, while other sources calls them Meridian, a similar regional attribution. A pity that in "Armi Bianche dal Mediebo all'Eta Moderna" (post #17 of Marcus quoted thread) both Marcus item #2 as well as my example are not shown in their true shape... at least to my eyes

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BTW
Spanish (Albacete) knives, those that so many people out there confuses with plug bayonets, are different animals, of course.

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fernando · 4th May 2017, 01:01 PM

Another example

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3rd May 2017, 07:35 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	In my opinion item 2 to item 4 came from Liguria/northern Italy. This typ of daggers came up in the 17. and 18. century in Genua and was to be found on the isles (Sardinia/Korsika) and partly in south eastern Spain. corrado26 Attached Images

3rd May 2017, 07:30 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	As i said, when i acquired mine, it was assumed to be from Meridional Italy. I am aware of these knives being also credited to Liguria but, according to known Italian websites (and not only), they are attributed to Southern Italy. I ignore whether there are similar works from both regions with only slight variations or this is a dispute between opinion sources. Let them both be happy . Here are pictures of mine, if Marcus doesn't mind . . Attached Images

4th May 2017, 11:20 AM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I should be nice to learn how to distinguish Ligurian (Genovese) knives from those of the South. Interesting to note that Sardinia, where the Genovese type seems to have reached (per corrado), is so Meridional as Southern Italy mainland. Actually another Italian auctioner also from the North (Czerny's), from where my example (indirectly) came, treats these types as Southern, while other sources calls them Meridian, a similar regional attribution. A pity that in "Armi Bianche dal Mediebo all'Eta Moderna" (post #17 of Marcus quoted thread) both Marcus item #2 as well as my example are not shown in their true shape... at least to my eyes . BTW Spanish (Albacete) knives, those that so many people out there confuses with plug bayonets, are different animals, of course. . Attached Images

4th May 2017, 01:01 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Another example - Attached Images

2nd May 2017, 08:29 PM	#2
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Thanks I will certainly post some decent pictures once I have them in hand!

3rd May 2017, 07:47 PM	#5
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Very nice. The auction was sponsored by San Giorgia, who also sell a book " Il Costello Genovese" that was mentioned in this thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=Coltello I have a copy on order We have Italian Post-Doc in the lab who should be able to help me with the text.