Bagobo, Blaan ? Your expertise please

Marbel · 17th April 2017, 07:10 PM

Thanks for your thoughts and knowledge Ian.

This piece came from an East Coast collector who found it on EBay several years ago. I'm afraid that's as far back as the provenance goes.

I have many Tboli blades and as you know, they are quite distinctive in their design (I'm referring specifically to the hilts and their patterns). My first thought on this was Bagobo but it didn't fit perfectly into that group either. As you noted, the high frequency of trading between these groups and the reuse of hilts, blades and scabbards creates quite a bit of grey area with these pieces at times.

I'm still scratching my head about the pattern and shape at the end of the hilt. It's quite unique and almost matches pieces where that area would have been done in wood. It's a very nice piece, beautifully worn and substantial in weight. Glad to have it.

Would love to have more comments if available. Thanks again.

Marbel · 17th April 2017, 07:15 PM

Yes Battara, thanks. We were typing at the same time.

The scabbard is certainly not a typical Bagobo design at all. Mandaya is a good call. They're neighbors. In general it just looks like a working man's scabbard.

Thanks again. Any thoughts on age?

Ian · 18th April 2017, 12:57 AM

Hi marbel:

I agree with battara. The scabbard is hard to place. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this one.

You are fortunate to have many Tboli blades. They are often well made swords and knives, and the brass/bronze hilts can be real works of art. I understand the best hilts are designed by women who carve the wax molds, and this seems to be a specific craft that has been passed down for many decades.

Ian.

Battara · 18th April 2017, 03:20 AM

Ian that's why I move away from T'boli on this hilt.

Marbel · 18th April 2017, 04:14 PM

Ian,

You are indeed correct on your comment about Tboli women participating in the creation of their swords, especially in the old days. While the men will work on the blades and the basic shape of the hilts (base wax), women would create the more intricate designs in wax for the finished mold. They'd often use small strings of copper wire to form tiny imprints into the main wax.

Thanks again.

Battara · 18th April 2017, 11:19 PM

Marbel, for a metalsmith like me, this information is of great interest and help. I was not aware.

Maraming Salamat!

Ian · 19th April 2017, 12:56 AM

Marbel, thanks for the information about how these hilts were decorated. Some time ago while in southern Mindanao I had the opportunity to visit a Tboli smith. His tools were fairly standard for a village smith although his forge had a western style bellows rather than a more traditional type. His mother was involved with the making of hilts (he had no sisters and was unmarried) but I did not see her at work. I did see some of her tools, many of which were fine iron needles, and she had a few pieces of well worn paper with hand drawn designs to work from. Unfortunately, they were very superstitious people who did not allow me to photograph them or their home. I don't recall seeing the copper wire forms that you mention, but these could have been in a number of small containers lying on the floor next to the low table where she worked.

Have you visited Mindanao? You seem to know quite a lot about weapons of the area.

Ian.

18th April 2017, 04:14 PM	#5
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 68	Ian, You are indeed correct on your comment about Tboli women participating in the creation of their swords, especially in the old days. While the men will work on the blades and the basic shape of the hilts (base wax), women would create the more intricate designs in wax for the finished mold. They'd often use small strings of copper wire to form tiny imprints into the main wax. Thanks again. Attached Images

17th April 2017, 07:10 PM	#1
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 68	Thanks for your thoughts and knowledge Ian. This piece came from an East Coast collector who found it on EBay several years ago. I'm afraid that's as far back as the provenance goes. I have many Tboli blades and as you know, they are quite distinctive in their design (I'm referring specifically to the hilts and their patterns). My first thought on this was Bagobo but it didn't fit perfectly into that group either. As you noted, the high frequency of trading between these groups and the reuse of hilts, blades and scabbards creates quite a bit of grey area with these pieces at times. I'm still scratching my head about the pattern and shape at the end of the hilt. It's quite unique and almost matches pieces where that area would have been done in wood. It's a very nice piece, beautifully worn and substantial in weight. Glad to have it. Would love to have more comments if available. Thanks again.

17th April 2017, 07:15 PM	#2
Marbel Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 68	Yes Battara, thanks. We were typing at the same time. The scabbard is certainly not a typical Bagobo design at all. Mandaya is a good call. They're neighbors. In general it just looks like a working man's scabbard. Thanks again. Any thoughts on age?

18th April 2017, 12:57 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Hi marbel: I agree with battara. The scabbard is hard to place. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this one. You are fortunate to have many Tboli blades. They are often well made swords and knives, and the brass/bronze hilts can be real works of art. I understand the best hilts are designed by women who carve the wax molds, and this seems to be a specific craft that has been passed down for many decades. Ian.

18th April 2017, 03:20 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Ian that's why I move away from T'boli on this hilt.

18th April 2017, 11:19 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Marbel, for a metalsmith like me, this information is of great interest and help. I was not aware. Maraming Salamat!

19th April 2017, 12:56 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Marbel, thanks for the information about how these hilts were decorated. Some time ago while in southern Mindanao I had the opportunity to visit a Tboli smith. His tools were fairly standard for a village smith although his forge had a western style bellows rather than a more traditional type. His mother was involved with the making of hilts (he had no sisters and was unmarried) but I did not see her at work. I did see some of her tools, many of which were fine iron needles, and she had a few pieces of well worn paper with hand drawn designs to work from. Unfortunately, they were very superstitious people who did not allow me to photograph them or their home. I don't recall seeing the copper wire forms that you mention, but these could have been in a number of small containers lying on the floor next to the low table where she worked. Have you visited Mindanao? You seem to know quite a lot about weapons of the area. Ian.