Opinions sought on 2 naval swords

[RobertGuy]

The 2nd cutlass has a fullered curved blade. These features were found on the 1825 Coastguard Cutlass although the hilt was very different. The GR cypher seems more angular than most I have seen on swords. These tend to have a more cursive script. The pattination looks right but this is a difficult one to pin down. I would start my research by looking into revenue and coastguard use.

[CutlassCollector]

According to Gilkerson the cast iron handle with 18 ribs and 6 vertical grooves first appeared on the Brit 1804 cutlass. The handle was almost straight.
Later versions of the handle are more shaped with a swelling and slight curve at the end to fit in the hand better. The 1830's coastguard cutlass is an example.
And this one - courtesy of Cap'n Mark.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12145

The straight handle on yours would tend to indicate nearer the early part of the century.

The 1814 appears with both types of handle. But for a cutlass that did not go into production there are an awful lot of examples. I believe most of these were private purchase using blades from catalogues some of which were marked with GR.
Which, I think, is why you sometimes see what appears to be an 1814 blade with a hilt that is much less than the double disk.

regards, CC.

[David R]

In the Leeds Royal Armouries store room there is a crate fitted out with muskets, pistols and cutlasses, about a dozen of each if memory serves me. Bought from a private collection, and for years thought to be an issue package for merchant or Navy ships. Research now indicates that these (multiples of these crates were produced) were sold as a package to large houses, manors etc for home defence during the Chartist period when Revolution and riot were seen as a likelihood. Perhaps that is the origin of these variant cutlasses, civil defence rather than shipping.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by David R

In the Leeds Royal Armouries store room there is a crate fitted out with muskets, pistols and cutlasses, about a dozen of each if memory serves me. Bought from a private collection, and for years thought to be an issue package for merchant or Navy ships. Research now indicates that these (multiples of these crates were produced) were sold as a package to large houses, manors etc for home defence during the Chartist period when Revolution and riot were seen as a likelihood. Perhaps that is the origin of these variant cutlasses, civil defence rather than shipping.

How interesting , thank you .

[CutlassCollector]

Originally Posted by David R

In the Leeds Royal Armouries store room there is a crate fitted out with muskets, pistols and cutlasses, about a dozen of each if memory serves me. Bought from a private collection, and for years thought to be an issue package for merchant or Navy ships. Research now indicates that these (multiples of these crates were produced) were sold as a package to large houses, manors etc for home defence during the Chartist period when Revolution and riot were seen as a likelihood. Perhaps that is the origin of these variant cutlasses, civil defence rather than shipping.

Thanks for that information, that is interesting. I have seen pictures of these fitted cases and I remember thinking at the time that it did not seem a very 'nautical' type storage arrangement.
Regards CC

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by CutlassCollector

According to Gilkerson the cast iron handle with 18 ribs and 6 vertical grooves first appeared on the Brit 1804 cutlass. The handle was almost straight.
Later versions of the handle are more shaped with a swelling and slight curve at the end to fit in the hand better. The 1830's coastguard cutlass is an example.
And this one - courtesy of Cap'n Mark.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12145

The straight handle on yours would tend to indicate nearer the early part of the century.

The 1814 appears with both types of handle. But for a cutlass that did not go into production there are an awful lot of examples. I believe most of these were private purchase using blades from catalogues some of which were marked with GR.
Which, I think, is why you sometimes see what appears to be an 1814 blade with a hilt that is much less than the double disk.

regards, CC.

Very interesting . The hilt is not strictly straight , whilst it has a straight back , the inner face has a distinct curve , swelling towards the blade. So I feel it may be later than 1804. But yes private purchase seems the likeliest .

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by RobertGuy

The 2nd cutlass has a fullered curved blade. These features were found on the 1825 Coastguard Cutlass although the hilt was very different. The GR cypher seems more angular than most I have seen on swords. These tend to have a more cursive script. The pattination looks right but this is a difficult one to pin down. I would start my research by looking into revenue and coastguard use.

Thank you , good advice.