Destroying artwork

Sajen · 9th March 2017, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silberschatzimsee

For me this is all BS and has something of a witch hunt and public burning of books.

They should take countermeasurements with hefty punisments to prevent the elephants getting slaughtered in Africa instead of harrasing collectors and playing the political correctness card with the effect of nothing.
I think in reality 95% of all collectors are against contemporary elephant hunting.

Anyway i bet a lot of "mammuth-ivory" will pass the customs and hit the markets in south east asia.

Very well said! Agree complete with you.

mariusgmioc · 9th March 2017, 01:28 PM

What about the ivory scales of antique weapons?

In the vast majority, the hilts are simply polished, not carved.

Does this mean that all aantique weapons featuring simply polished ivory must be destroyed?!

Does this mean that all Ottoman Kilij swords with rhino hilts should be confiscated and destroyed?!

What about grand-granny's cutlery that has been in the family for 150 years?! Should it be confiscated and desrtoyed if put on sale?

Am I missing something?

A. G. Maisey · 10th March 2017, 09:45 PM

Pure insanity.

The information I have been given by a good friend living in the USA seems to indicate that at least some of the states in the USA are poised to become even worse than this matter reported to us by Asomotif. Indeed, he anticipates the situation to become so threatening that he gave me his collection of antique ivory keris hilts in order to avoid their possible destruction.

When I hear of the anti-ivory things going on in some parts of the world, the thing that always comes into my mind is antique musical instruments and religious artifacts.

Can we expect to see this entire segment of western material culture destroyed in the future?

Laowang · 10th March 2017, 10:15 PM

The United States has banned the sale of African elephant ivory across state lines; California has gone further and banned the sale of all ivory, no matter what the original animal, within the state.

In both cases, antiques (100 years or older) and musical instruments (manufactured before 1975) are exempted. Of course, the burden of proof is on the seller, unfortunately. This will make it more difficult to sell legitimate antiques, and legitimate antique ivory caught up in enforcement may indeed be destroyed if customs authorities are uncertain.

That being said, it's pretty difficult to enforce prohibitions of sale across state lines. There aren't any customs inspections as you cross from one state to the next, by air or land. The mail isn't inspected.

To anticipate the authorities entering one's home and seizing antique ivory weapons is a little far-fetched. Perhaps some distrust of the government is warranted, given historical fact, but it seems a little paranoid to think you are at risk for owning ethnographic weapons with antique ivory.

mariusgmioc · 10th March 2017, 10:29 PM

Well, apparently many of my questions and much of the speculations here are because of missinformation.

From all the information I gathered, the restrictions concern ONLY the trading of ivory and not the possesion of it.

Moreover, the restrictions do not concern antique ivory.

For more details, check the new thread I opened on this topic.

9th March 2017, 01:28 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	What about the ivory scales of antique weapons? In the vast majority, the hilts are simply polished, not carved. Does this mean that all aantique weapons featuring simply polished ivory must be destroyed?! Does this mean that all Ottoman Kilij swords with rhino hilts should be confiscated and destroyed?! What about grand-granny's cutlery that has been in the family for 150 years?! Should it be confiscated and desrtoyed if put on sale? Am I missing something? Last edited by mariusgmioc; 9th March 2017 at 01:41 PM.

10th March 2017, 09:45 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Pure insanity. The information I have been given by a good friend living in the USA seems to indicate that at least some of the states in the USA are poised to become even worse than this matter reported to us by Asomotif. Indeed, he anticipates the situation to become so threatening that he gave me his collection of antique ivory keris hilts in order to avoid their possible destruction. When I hear of the anti-ivory things going on in some parts of the world, the thing that always comes into my mind is antique musical instruments and religious artifacts. Can we expect to see this entire segment of western material culture destroyed in the future?

10th March 2017, 10:15 PM	#4
Laowang Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: 40˚00' N, 83˚00' W Posts: 52	The United States has banned the sale of African elephant ivory across state lines; California has gone further and banned the sale of all ivory, no matter what the original animal, within the state. In both cases, antiques (100 years or older) and musical instruments (manufactured before 1975) are exempted. Of course, the burden of proof is on the seller, unfortunately. This will make it more difficult to sell legitimate antiques, and legitimate antique ivory caught up in enforcement may indeed be destroyed if customs authorities are uncertain. That being said, it's pretty difficult to enforce prohibitions of sale across state lines. There aren't any customs inspections as you cross from one state to the next, by air or land. The mail isn't inspected. To anticipate the authorities entering one's home and seizing antique ivory weapons is a little far-fetched. Perhaps some distrust of the government is warranted, given historical fact, but it seems a little paranoid to think you are at risk for owning ethnographic weapons with antique ivory.

10th March 2017, 10:29 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Well, apparently many of my questions and much of the speculations here are because of missinformation. From all the information I gathered, the restrictions concern ONLY the trading of ivory and not the possesion of it. Moreover, the restrictions do not concern antique ivory. For more details, check the new thread I opened on this topic.