Pattern welding

kino · 8th March 2017, 05:07 AM

Would this be a result of pattern welding?

Thanks.

A. G. Maisey · 8th March 2017, 06:42 AM

Could we see the complete object please, or at least a considerable section of it.
My interim response is that this is not pattern welding, but I need much more than a small section of the object to look at.

Ian · 8th March 2017, 07:18 AM

Hi kino. To follow up on what Alan said, can we see the whole object please, plus selected pics of the "laminated" area(s) at somewhat lower magnification, so we can orient the pattern you have shown already.

Thanks.

mross · 8th March 2017, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Could we see the complete object please, or at least a considerable section of it.
My interim response is that this is not pattern welding, but I need much more than a small section of the object to look at.

I agree, looks more like shear steel. But bigger pic is better.

kino · 8th March 2017, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Could we see the complete object please, or at least a considerable section of it.
My interim response is that this is not pattern welding, but I need much more than a small section of the object to look at.

Here are additional photos.
It's a kris blade.

Was it etched with a solution other than ferric chloride or household vinegar?
A stronger acid perhaps?

kino · 9th March 2017, 03:26 AM

See previous post.

A. G. Maisey · 9th March 2017, 06:35 AM

I think that it is probably wrought iron that has been folded and welded a few times.

It has a similar appearance to shear steel, but I feel that it would be highly unlikely to find shear steel in this type of artifact.

Shear steel is made by taking blister steel and cutting it into short lengths that are then welded together and rolled out before making the shear steel into cutting implements. 19th century table knives are not infrequently made of shear steel. The process existed in Europe from at least the 16th century.

Blister steel --- used to produce shear steel --- was made by taking wrought iron billets and heating in clay pots with charcoal in a furnace, this raised the carbon content of the material, thus turning it into steel.

Wrought iron has a grain, and if you weld it together a few times before using it it has the effect of removing impurities and refining the grain of the material. I think that this is what we're looking at here:- wrought iron that has been welded together a few times.

Lee · 9th March 2017, 02:01 PM

I think Alan has most excellently described how this attractive pattern would have been achieved.

While there are those (especially in the trade) who would surely describe it as 'pattern-welded', I would describe it as 'coarsely laminated'.

I reserve the term 'pattern welded' to where twisted rods of contrasting composition generate the pattern.

My thoughts are summarized in this document

mariusgmioc · 9th March 2017, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

My thoughts are summarized in this document

Very educating article! Thanks!

mross · 9th March 2017, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I think that it is probably wrought iron that has been folded and welded a few times.

It has a similar appearance to shear steel, but I feel that it would be highly unlikely to find shear steel in this type of artifact.

Shear steel is made by taking blister steel and cutting it into short lengths that are then welded together and rolled out before making the shear steel into cutting implements. 19th century table knives are not infrequently made of shear steel. The process existed in Europe from at least the 16th century.

Blister steel --- used to produce shear steel --- was made by taking wrought iron billets and heating in clay pots with charcoal in a furnace, this raised the carbon content of the material, thus turning it into steel.

Wrought iron has a grain, and if you weld it together a few times before using it it has the effect of removing impurities and refining the grain of the material. I think that this is what we're looking at here:- wrought iron that has been welded together a few times.

Now that I can see the whole thing, I would suspect wrought as well, both are close.

kino · 10th March 2017, 02:41 AM

Thanks Alan for the illumination of the materials composition.

Lee, your monograph will be great reading, especially with the current rainy condition in the Pacific NW.

8th March 2017, 05:07 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Pattern welding Would this be a result of pattern welding? Thanks. Attached Images

9th March 2017, 03:26 AM	#6
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Photos added See previous post.

8th March 2017, 06:42 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Could we see the complete object please, or at least a considerable section of it. My interim response is that this is not pattern welding, but I need much more than a small section of the object to look at.

8th March 2017, 07:18 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi kino. To follow up on what Alan said, can we see the whole object please, plus selected pics of the "laminated" area(s) at somewhat lower magnification, so we can orient the pattern you have shown already. Thanks.

9th March 2017, 06:35 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	I think that it is probably wrought iron that has been folded and welded a few times. It has a similar appearance to shear steel, but I feel that it would be highly unlikely to find shear steel in this type of artifact. Shear steel is made by taking blister steel and cutting it into short lengths that are then welded together and rolled out before making the shear steel into cutting implements. 19th century table knives are not infrequently made of shear steel. The process existed in Europe from at least the 16th century. Blister steel --- used to produce shear steel --- was made by taking wrought iron billets and heating in clay pots with charcoal in a furnace, this raised the carbon content of the material, thus turning it into steel. Wrought iron has a grain, and if you weld it together a few times before using it it has the effect of removing impurities and refining the grain of the material. I think that this is what we're looking at here:- wrought iron that has been welded together a few times.

9th March 2017, 02:01 PM	#8
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	I think Alan has most excellently described how this attractive pattern would have been achieved. While there are those (especially in the trade) who would surely describe it as 'pattern-welded', I would describe it as 'coarsely laminated'. I reserve the term 'pattern welded' to where twisted rods of contrasting composition generate the pattern. My thoughts are summarized in this document

10th March 2017, 02:41 AM	#11
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Thanks Alan for the illumination of the materials composition. Lee, your monograph will be great reading, especially with the current rainy condition in the Pacific NW.