The half moon symbol in early Spanish swords

[fernando]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

as known, some German blacksmiths from solingen used hispanicized marks... It seems that for geographical determination, a mark in itself has subordinate value and should always be considered in conjunction with the inscribed name of the blacksmith...

Absolutely, Jasper.
Actually the inverted stiuation, as you know, is also not reliable. Often we see blade smiths name inscriptions, some times even 'supported' by the To symbol, that are a fake; Ayala, Sahagun and other.


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[Jim McDougall]

Perfect Fernando!!! I knew you would have a reference on Jewish smiths , which seems to have escaped the English language references I had used. I think they must have assumed that these artisans must have not been noted as such as so much of the motif, markings and inscriptions which were covertly encoded with Cabbalistic devices and numerology, that their identities must have been equally encrypted.
As always, I thank you for the elucidation.

There we have the Z and S syndrome again! and I forgot to look for the Zs.
I knew that Zaragoza was also spelled Saragossa, but was unclear on the grammar determination of which was proper in which geographic or linguistic setting. This was indeed a key alternate center which seems to have been an alternate location for many of the masters.

The number 3 seems to appear in a number of the punzones, but indeed, the character may be a letter in the calligraphy of Spanish dialects or geographic and period references. Again, I hope you might set this straight.
Curiously, the numeric three in various symbolic application is believed to represent the Holy Trinity in Christianity as well as the Holy Three in other religions symbolism. I have even seen the number '3' standing alone on some western blades.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... I knew you would have a reference on Jewish smiths , which seems to have escaped the English language references I had used...

It wouldn't be easy to find 'my' source. It is in fact a two tome old publication that i once found and immediately bought . One tome (1907) is dedicated to white arms smiths and the other (1908) to firearms makers. Hundreds of them, since the XIV century, listed with full texts of their Royal letters of privilege, as often events of their personal lives.

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...I think they must have assumed that these artisans must have not been noted as such as so much of the motif, markings and inscriptions which were covertly encoded with Cabbalistic devices and numerology, that their identities must have been equally encrypted...

Going into such encrypted universe, we face riddles that are not easy to crack as also so often involved by esoteric fans into the mantle of fantasy.
On the other hand, in this great work written by Viterbo, with read details on smiths so exhaustively narrated but no comments being made on marks, except for the sketch of a couple used in firearms, those from the XVIII century, a period in which high end gun smiths fancied applying their seal.
I guess (guess) the habit of marking swords (blades) is a procedure adopted by the (guild) smiths of some countries, Portugal not included. One can spot one or two smiths names, one or two owners names, one or two patriotic or (common) religious inscriptions, but not actual smiths seals, whatever religion they practiced.

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[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... The number 3 seems to appear in a number of the punzones, but indeed, the character may be a letter in the calligraphy of Spanish dialects or geographic and period references. Again, I hope you might set this straight.
Curiously, the numeric three in various symbolic application is believed to represent the Holy Trinity in Christianity as well as the Holy Three in other religions symbolism. I have even seen the number '3' standing alone on some western blades.

Jim, you know that i am not much of a fan of esoterism, such as you are, as i prefer digging into more 'skeptical' interpretations. In looking back to considerations written in LA MARCA DEL PERRILLO DEL ESPADERO ESPAÑOL JULIAN DEL REY by J. J. Rodriguez Lorente, we quotes Sánchez Cantón, who interpreters Jehan Lhermite's attributions to the mark of Sebastian Hernandez, as being a 'Z' with an arched tail . So we have here a period stylized (cursive) letter 'Z' trasvestized to our modern eyes as being a number '3'. We might then be closer from the toponimic mark of Zaragossa, in view of both Fernandez and Hernandez and having possibly such origin. How is this for an approach ?

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