Article: Notes on development of modern sabers - Role of Eastern Europe & the Hussars

Jim McDougall · 15th January 2005, 01:53 AM

Hi Andrew,
Thank you for the kind note!

Yes I have been on a tear! The piles of books in here are getting dangerous, but I get a bit berserk when a good discussion starts a quest.

Radu,
Thanks for the observation, I felt pretty safe noting Nicolle's statement with the quotation marks

I know this is your turf, so always appreciate any observations that might correct any errors or broad assumptions. The topic you've brought up on this thread is a good one, and the development of swords in these regions is key to understanding many ethnographic sabre forms.

TVV,
The Cuman sabre (noted as Hungarian in the drawing in the book as noted in reference) is not very cooperative in being scanned ( this thing never works right anyway

). These line drawings are not the best representation of these weapons, but simply give a reasonable impression (much like the police artist for identifying suspects).
The complexities of discussing the tribal movements through these regions and the semantics in thier names alone is most confusing, but as we seem to agree, most important in trying to establish the swords of choice among them. I think you are right in presuming assimilation of Cumans into Bulgarian state, but unclear on which time period we mean. This is another confounding factor in studying these tribal peoples, the constant diffusion and assimilation into other groups. In some references it is implied that the Avars 'simply disappeared' , in one reference the expression "gone like the Avars" was used. Like many tribal groups, many assimilated into other larger groups rather than 'disappearing'.

Really enjoying this discussion guys!!! Thank you!!!

All the best,
Jim

15th January 2005, 01:53 AM	#21
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Andrew, Thank you for the kind note! Yes I have been on a tear! The piles of books in here are getting dangerous, but I get a bit berserk when a good discussion starts a quest. Radu, Thanks for the observation, I felt pretty safe noting Nicolle's statement with the quotation marks I know this is your turf, so always appreciate any observations that might correct any errors or broad assumptions. The topic you've brought up on this thread is a good one, and the development of swords in these regions is key to understanding many ethnographic sabre forms. TVV, The Cuman sabre (noted as Hungarian in the drawing in the book as noted in reference) is not very cooperative in being scanned ( this thing never works right anyway ). These line drawings are not the best representation of these weapons, but simply give a reasonable impression (much like the police artist for identifying suspects). The complexities of discussing the tribal movements through these regions and the semantics in thier names alone is most confusing, but as we seem to agree, most important in trying to establish the swords of choice among them. I think you are right in presuming assimilation of Cumans into Bulgarian state, but unclear on which time period we mean. This is another confounding factor in studying these tribal peoples, the constant diffusion and assimilation into other groups. In some references it is implied that the Avars 'simply disappeared' , in one reference the expression "gone like the Avars" was used. Like many tribal groups, many assimilated into other larger groups rather than 'disappearing'. Really enjoying this discussion guys!!! Thank you!!! All the best, Jim