Shamshir, ID and translation please

mariusgmioc · 28th February 2017, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royston

Completely outside my sphere of collecting.
I am going to guess that this is a Persian ( lion on blade ) watered blade, shamshir.
I have just mildly cleaned one section of the blade to show the lion and the pattern.

I would appreciate any information from the experts.

Thanks
Roy

While it is difficult to say from the photos, I got the impression the blade is wootz, thus most certainly Persian.

The hilt looks like Mameluke indeed.

Oliver Pinchot · 28th February 2017, 03:41 PM

It is certainly a Persian shamshir.
The blade is inscribed in the upper cartouche, ABBAS SHAH BANDE-YE VILAYET, which was the title adopted by Shah Abbas I (r. 1588-1629) and used by shahs of Iran thereafter. The lower cartouche, depicting a lion, also bears the name ASSAD. This is a transitional signature discussed in my article, which Ibrahim kindly cited. The wootz pattern is evident in the photos.

The guard is original. Though corroded, fine chiseling is evident.
The grips are ivory, in Mamluk style, but may be Persian work as well.
On cursory examination, it probably dates to the second half of the 18th or beginning of the 19th century.

Sajen · 28th February 2017, 05:28 PM

Wow Oliver,
great description! Agree with you and Marius about wootz, clearly visible. Agree also that the handle scales are from ivory as well that the guard would look beautiful after a very careful cleaning. It's a very nice sword which need a good and careful restoration.

Regards,
Detlef

Tim Simmons · 28th February 2017, 09:02 PM

Not so sure about the rather fresh looking file marks on the handle. I think it has been through repair restoration and replacement.

Royston · 1st March 2017, 12:44 PM

Thanks for the information everyone. As I said, not my sphere of collecting so all of this is very helpfull.

I had not thought that the grips are ivory as I could not see any obvious schreger lines. One of the new photos, of the end of the pommel does look more like ivory now I have looked more closely.

Tim, I cannot account for the file marks, but if you look at the new photos, I do not think anything about the hilt could be called "fresh" I don't think the grips have been off for a while. If it has been restored and replaced it looks as though it was a good while ago.

Thanks again
Roy

kai · 1st March 2017, 03:42 PM

Hello Roy,

the blade looks pattern-welded to me, not wootz.

Anyway, it is quality work AFAIK...

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 1st March 2017, 04:08 PM

Its a very nice old Persian blade mounted in English hilt to my eyes. I can't point out anything else which has not already been mentioned.

Richard Delar might chime in here as there is a well written discourse on The English Mameluke Cavalry Officers sword.

Gavin

28th February 2017, 09:02 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Not so sure about the rather fresh looking file marks on the handle. I think it has been through repair restoration and replacement. Attached Images

1st March 2017, 12:44 PM	#5
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Thanks for the information everyone. As I said, not my sphere of collecting so all of this is very helpfull. I had not thought that the grips are ivory as I could not see any obvious schreger lines. One of the new photos, of the end of the pommel does look more like ivory now I have looked more closely. Tim, I cannot account for the file marks, but if you look at the new photos, I do not think anything about the hilt could be called "fresh" I don't think the grips have been off for a while. If it has been restored and replaced it looks as though it was a good while ago. Thanks again Roy Attached Images

28th February 2017, 03:41 PM	#2
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 468	It is certainly a Persian shamshir. The blade is inscribed in the upper cartouche, ABBAS SHAH BANDE-YE VILAYET, which was the title adopted by Shah Abbas I (r. 1588-1629) and used by shahs of Iran thereafter. The lower cartouche, depicting a lion, also bears the name ASSAD. This is a transitional signature discussed in my article, which Ibrahim kindly cited. The wootz pattern is evident in the photos. The guard is original. Though corroded, fine chiseling is evident. The grips are ivory, in Mamluk style, but may be Persian work as well. On cursory examination, it probably dates to the second half of the 18th or beginning of the 19th century.

28th February 2017, 05:28 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,270	Wow Oliver, great description! Agree with you and Marius about wootz, clearly visible. Agree also that the handle scales are from ivory as well that the guard would look beautiful after a very careful cleaning. It's a very nice sword which need a good and careful restoration. Regards, Detlef

1st March 2017, 03:42 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Roy, the blade looks pattern-welded to me, not wootz. Anyway, it is quality work AFAIK... Regards, Kai

1st March 2017, 04:08 PM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Its a very nice old Persian blade mounted in English hilt to my eyes. I can't point out anything else which has not already been mentioned. Richard Delar might chime in here as there is a well written discourse on The English Mameluke Cavalry Officers sword. Gavin