Interesting implement

Kubur · 23rd February 2017, 04:27 PM

if i remember these are sindhi kattars
sometimes with engravings on the blade, a man with a sun
and also the birds on the handle...

Kubur · 23rd February 2017, 04:34 PM

KATAR JAMADHAR is what i have in mind...

Jens Nordlunde · 23rd February 2017, 09:36 PM

Miguel, you are right I am researching the katar as best I can, and I have four researches going at the moment, so I dont tthink I should take up more.

I can not say, from the picture, if this is a garsoe katar or not, but Miguel's comment is very good.
Its really a very odd thing.

mariusgmioc · 23rd February 2017, 10:40 PM

As Jens noted, the Katar in the original posting couldn't be effectively used as it would provide a completely inadequate grip.
However, I believe this Katar was never meant to be used.
Just by looking at the blade one can easily notice it doesn't appear to have an edge and strong tips suitable for stabbing.
So I am of the oppinion it is a purely decorative piece.

ariel · 24th February 2017, 02:04 AM

Pure IMHO:
It is not exhibited; it is kept in storage.
Who knows what the "Fletcher fund" is supposed to be...

People donate all kinds of stuff to a multitude of organizations, often for tax purposes, and the museums are stuck with them.

It is too impractical for a fighting usage and too crude and unattractive for a decorative one.

My guess it is a souvenir, and likely not old at all.

Jim McDougall · 24th February 2017, 04:27 AM

In my opinion, this could well be a 'votive' weapon, that is, one used only symbolically in ritual and ceremony in religious circumstances, in this case probably Hindu. In southern states in India, such as Karnataka and Kerala and others, there is the ceremony of Aayudha Pooja, or worship of weapons.

I am unclear on what weapons or how these ceremonies are practiced or determined, but this example may have been made for such use. As noted, its age is not great but seems somewhat patinated. I believe certain types of formulated pastes or substances are put on these in the ritual which may account for discoloration.

The use of votive weapons in temples and religious rituals, ceremony and procession is known widely in India and many places in Hindu and Buddhist Faiths. In Tibet, the 'phurbu' (or ghost dagger) is such a weapon, used only figuratively in rituals.

Interesting item, and indeed seems to be made nominally in the general shape of a katar, which of course did have forms made with often two blades or other variants.

Ian · 24th February 2017, 02:41 PM

Ariel:

The Met actually bought this piece (see under Provenance) so I guess someone thought it worthy of collecting. It appears that the Fletcher Fund was used to pay for it.

Ian

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Pure IMHO:
It is not exhibited; it is kept in storage.
Who knows what the "Fletcher fund" is supposed to be...

People donate all kinds of stuff to a multitude of organizations, often for tax purposes, and the museums are stuck with them.

It is too impractical for a fighting usage and too crude and unattractive for a decorative one.

My guess it is a souvenir, and likely not old at all.

23rd February 2017, 04:34 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	KATAR JAMADHAR is what i have in mind... Attached Images

23rd February 2017, 04:27 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	if i remember these are sindhi kattars sometimes with engravings on the blade, a man with a sun and also the birds on the handle...

23rd February 2017, 09:36 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Miguel, you are right I am researching the katar as best I can, and I have four researches going at the moment, so I dont tthink I should take up more. I can not say, from the picture, if this is a garsoe katar or not, but Miguel's comment is very good. Its really a very odd thing.

23rd February 2017, 10:40 PM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	As Jens noted, the Katar in the original posting couldn't be effectively used as it would provide a completely inadequate grip. However, I believe this Katar was never meant to be used. Just by looking at the blade one can easily notice it doesn't appear to have an edge and strong tips suitable for stabbing. So I am of the oppinion it is a purely decorative piece.

24th February 2017, 02:04 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Pure IMHO: It is not exhibited; it is kept in storage. Who knows what the "Fletcher fund" is supposed to be... People donate all kinds of stuff to a multitude of organizations, often for tax purposes, and the museums are stuck with them. It is too impractical for a fighting usage and too crude and unattractive for a decorative one. My guess it is a souvenir, and likely not old at all.

24th February 2017, 04:27 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	In my opinion, this could well be a 'votive' weapon, that is, one used only symbolically in ritual and ceremony in religious circumstances, in this case probably Hindu. In southern states in India, such as Karnataka and Kerala and others, there is the ceremony of Aayudha Pooja, or worship of weapons. I am unclear on what weapons or how these ceremonies are practiced or determined, but this example may have been made for such use. As noted, its age is not great but seems somewhat patinated. I believe certain types of formulated pastes or substances are put on these in the ritual which may account for discoloration. The use of votive weapons in temples and religious rituals, ceremony and procession is known widely in India and many places in Hindu and Buddhist Faiths. In Tibet, the 'phurbu' (or ghost dagger) is such a weapon, used only figuratively in rituals. Interesting item, and indeed seems to be made nominally in the general shape of a katar, which of course did have forms made with often two blades or other variants.