A Spanish rapier Early 17TH century

Jim McDougall · 15th February 2017, 10:56 PM

Anybody out there have any thoughts or ideas on the rather crudely incised lettering and unusual spelling in the FRAN'Z'ISCO RUIZ ??? the curious 'crescent' (?) at the forte? The absence of the Ruiz punzone?

fernando · 16th February 2017, 02:30 PM

There is no punzon, as there is no FranZisco Ruiz. How many spurious spellings of great Masters like Ayala, for one, do you know, Jim ?
You are left to crack the riddle of the crescent presence

.

.

Jim McDougall · 16th February 2017, 05:59 PM

OK Fernando, that was the point, it is a spurious use of the name, so obviously the punzone (or is it punSone?

) is absent.
With the erratic letters in the inscription which are almost crudely executed I fear this is even beyond the usual Solingen placement, and with the number of rapier examples that have been in circulation using the Francisco Ruiz name (a number are less than authentic) I wonder on this.
Could it be a Solingen blade with poorly applied letters but of the period by a maker without the usual rack system?

The apparent crescent is a conundrum in itself, is this an equally inept attempt at the 'espadero del rey' mark?

I do not like negatively questioning a weapon, which is otherwise a most attractive and interesting piece, but these factors must be considered.

fernando · 18th February 2017, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...so obviously the punzone (or is it punSone?

) is absent.

Actualy spelt punzón, plural punzones

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...is this an equally inept attempt at the 'espadero del rey' mark? ...

Is there a mark for espaderos del rey, Jim ? can you expand on that ?

Jim McDougall · 19th February 2017, 02:37 AM

Thanks for the spell check Nando, that was a shameless pun on my part

On the mark of the 'Espaderos del Rey', from Wallace Collection (Sir James Mann, 1962):
A545 (p.279), a rapier c.1620, "...the incongruous combination of a Toledo mark and the half moon of an Espadero del Rey with the name of the Italian bladesmith Andrea Ferara suggest this is a product of Solingen".

A652 (p.331), a cup hilt rapier Spanish c1635; blade German (?)

"...the ricasso, inside the cup stamped on each side with a makers mark and the half moon of an Espadero del Rey. "
Further noted the the mark ST is said to be for Tomas de Ayala and that the Stantlers of Munich also used the letters ST (a crowned ST) along with the name Sebastian Hernandez. The four sided blade on this example is noted to not be usually found on cup hilt rapiers.

It would appear that the half moons (which typically look like Tarot card characters with man in the moon face), were somehow often used along with makers punzon in Spain, for Espaderos del Rey (the Kings artisans).
However it is unclear whether this was a broadly used designation or strictly for select makers. The only maker noted as such by Palomares was of course Julian del Rey (with the perillo, or little dog, rampant) but no note I am aware of) with a half moon. If there is such instance you are aware of I would be grateful to know.

Clearly, the half moon mark became part of the Solingen repertoire of symbols and devices used by Solingen smiths along with other spurious Spanish names and punzones, and eventually became part of the astral groupings inscribed in Solingen blades.

This simple mark, looking in Rorschach test parlance, like a crescent (but facing the wrong direction) seems possibly an incongruent attempt to allude to the Spanish theme inscribed in the fuller with Ruiz' name.

fernando · 19th February 2017, 05:09 PM

Alright Jim,
I have checked both examples at the Wallace and went into a search for the half moon mark in Spanish sites.
The only citation i found is that, Master Juan Martin used a half moon punzon as his personal mark (#39 in Palomares nomina).
"MUY BONITAS Y DIGNAS DE CONOCERSE SON LAS DE JUAN MARTIN QUE USÓ UNA MEDIALUNA EN CUARTO CRECIENTE"
On the other hand i often read that the statute of being a Espadero del Rey is represented with the Royal crown above the master's personal mark escutcheon.
"REMATADA EM CORONA REAL POR POSEER EL TITULO DE ESPADERO DEL REY"
But if you give it a different reading of the Wallace descriptions, they mention the half moon of "an" espadero del rey and not of "the" espaderos del rey, meaning to say that, they may be referring to a "determined" espadero and not the espaderos "in general"; which brings us to consider that of the said Juan Martin ... or a spurious use of such Master.

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2017, 05:10 AM

Good work Fernando! and interesting note on the interpretation of the Wallace entries. The half moon mark of 'AN' Espadero del Rey would suggest that all of the makers in Toledo were then makers for the crown, and we presume that the half moon mark was used in this case by one of them.
As you point out in the Palomares nomina (1772) only one of the 99 entries uses a half moon mark , Juan Martin (#39).

While the Palomares chart lists just the names and little detail, with none of these makers specified as an Espadero del Rey, even Julian del Rey who of course has the name so specified. This must be the 'younger' as the Julian del Rey originally credited with the noted mark of the 'perillo' was a Moor converted to Christianity and maker to Boabdil 1484-1498.

In looking into "Small Arms Makers" (Gardner, 1963) which lists names of 'foreign swordsmiths' with certain key note details in varying degree, I found that of virtually all of the smiths represented in Palomares, only one was listed with the title, Espadero del Rey.....that was Antonio Ruiz of Toledo, 1566-1570 (p.365). In checking Palomares, this Ruiz is #13, and has a shield with an 'o' over a 'T' in a shield......no crown.

In the reference noted regarding Espaderos de Rey, you note the statute designating these makers as such is the royal crown over the makers personal mark. Looking at Palomares nomina, there are only a select number, perhaps half, with such crowns included in the punzon. Of these, none are those specifically noted as Espaderos del Rey. Neither Juan Martin (half moon #39); nor Antonio Ruiz (#13, o over T) have crowns nor #59, the perillo of Julian del Rey.

It would appear that the half moon mark was seemingly associated with Espaderos del Rey as in Wallace (Mann, 1962) A582, on a rapier there is the half moon mark along with the O, T mark (Antonio Ruiz) and in this case, it is crowned. Again, this smith was the only one specified as Espadero del Rey....and here is his mark OT and crowned, along with the half moon !

The suggestion seems to be that the half moon, in cases where the makers mark was present, and the marks congruently applied, may have been to makers who had the particular statute afforded them .

Apparantly the Kings of Castile granted privileges of different kinds or there were varying degrees of statute possibly represented in the recorded punzon listings which were no longer available when Palomares collected these at the Ayuntamiento in Toledo.

I am afraid this brings us no closer to resolving the curious mark at the forte on this blade, but an interesting foray into Spanish markings just the same.

16th February 2017, 02:30 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	There is no punzon, as there is no FranZisco Ruiz. How many spurious spellings of great Masters like Ayala, for one, do you know, Jim ? You are left to crack the riddle of the crescent presence . . Last edited by fernando; 16th February 2017 at 07:47 PM. Reason: spell

15th February 2017, 10:56 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Anybody out there have any thoughts or ideas on the rather crudely incised lettering and unusual spelling in the FRAN'Z'ISCO RUIZ ??? the curious 'crescent' (?) at the forte? The absence of the Ruiz punzone?

16th February 2017, 05:59 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	OK Fernando, that was the point, it is a spurious use of the name, so obviously the punzone (or is it punSone? ) is absent. With the erratic letters in the inscription which are almost crudely executed I fear this is even beyond the usual Solingen placement, and with the number of rapier examples that have been in circulation using the Francisco Ruiz name (a number are less than authentic) I wonder on this. Could it be a Solingen blade with poorly applied letters but of the period by a maker without the usual rack system? The apparent crescent is a conundrum in itself, is this an equally inept attempt at the 'espadero del rey' mark? I do not like negatively questioning a weapon, which is otherwise a most attractive and interesting piece, but these factors must be considered.

19th February 2017, 02:37 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Thanks for the spell check Nando, that was a shameless pun on my part On the mark of the 'Espaderos del Rey', from Wallace Collection (Sir James Mann, 1962): A545 (p.279), a rapier c.1620, "...the incongruous combination of a Toledo mark and the half moon of an Espadero del Rey with the name of the Italian bladesmith Andrea Ferara suggest this is a product of Solingen". A652 (p.331), a cup hilt rapier Spanish c1635; blade German (?) "...the ricasso, inside the cup stamped on each side with a makers mark and the half moon of an Espadero del Rey. " Further noted the the mark ST is said to be for Tomas de Ayala and that the Stantlers of Munich also used the letters ST (a crowned ST) along with the name Sebastian Hernandez. The four sided blade on this example is noted to not be usually found on cup hilt rapiers. It would appear that the half moons (which typically look like Tarot card characters with man in the moon face), were somehow often used along with makers punzon in Spain, for Espaderos del Rey (the Kings artisans). However it is unclear whether this was a broadly used designation or strictly for select makers. The only maker noted as such by Palomares was of course Julian del Rey (with the perillo, or little dog, rampant) but no note I am aware of) with a half moon. If there is such instance you are aware of I would be grateful to know. Clearly, the half moon mark became part of the Solingen repertoire of symbols and devices used by Solingen smiths along with other spurious Spanish names and punzones, and eventually became part of the astral groupings inscribed in Solingen blades. This simple mark, looking in Rorschach test parlance, like a crescent (but facing the wrong direction) seems possibly an incongruent attempt to allude to the Spanish theme inscribed in the fuller with Ruiz' name.

19th February 2017, 05:09 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Alright Jim, I have checked both examples at the Wallace and went into a search for the half moon mark in Spanish sites. The only citation i found is that, Master Juan Martin used a half moon punzon as his personal mark (#39 in Palomares nomina). "MUY BONITAS Y DIGNAS DE CONOCERSE SON LAS DE JUAN MARTIN QUE USÓ UNA MEDIALUNA EN CUARTO CRECIENTE" On the other hand i often read that the statute of being a Espadero del Rey is represented with the Royal crown above the master's personal mark escutcheon. "REMATADA EM CORONA REAL POR POSEER EL TITULO DE ESPADERO DEL REY" But if you give it a different reading of the Wallace descriptions, they mention the half moon of "an" espadero del rey and not of "the" espaderos del rey, meaning to say that, they may be referring to a "determined" espadero and not the espaderos "in general"; which brings us to consider that of the said Juan Martin ... or a spurious use of such Master.

20th February 2017, 05:10 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Good work Fernando! and interesting note on the interpretation of the Wallace entries. The half moon mark of 'AN' Espadero del Rey would suggest that all of the makers in Toledo were then makers for the crown, and we presume that the half moon mark was used in this case by one of them. As you point out in the Palomares nomina (1772) only one of the 99 entries uses a half moon mark , Juan Martin (#39). While the Palomares chart lists just the names and little detail, with none of these makers specified as an Espadero del Rey, even Julian del Rey who of course has the name so specified. This must be the 'younger' as the Julian del Rey originally credited with the noted mark of the 'perillo' was a Moor converted to Christianity and maker to Boabdil 1484-1498. In looking into "Small Arms Makers" (Gardner, 1963) which lists names of 'foreign swordsmiths' with certain key note details in varying degree, I found that of virtually all of the smiths represented in Palomares, only one was listed with the title, Espadero del Rey.....that was Antonio Ruiz of Toledo, 1566-1570 (p.365). In checking Palomares, this Ruiz is #13, and has a shield with an 'o' over a 'T' in a shield......no crown. In the reference noted regarding Espaderos de Rey, you note the statute designating these makers as such is the royal crown over the makers personal mark. Looking at Palomares nomina, there are only a select number, perhaps half, with such crowns included in the punzon. Of these, none are those specifically noted as Espaderos del Rey. Neither Juan Martin (half moon #39); nor Antonio Ruiz (#13, o over T) have crowns nor #59, the perillo of Julian del Rey. It would appear that the half moon mark was seemingly associated with Espaderos del Rey as in Wallace (Mann, 1962) A582, on a rapier there is the half moon mark along with the O, T mark (Antonio Ruiz) and in this case, it is crowned. Again, this smith was the only one specified as Espadero del Rey....and here is his mark OT and crowned, along with the half moon ! The suggestion seems to be that the half moon, in cases where the makers mark was present, and the marks congruently applied, may have been to makers who had the particular statute afforded them . Apparantly the Kings of Castile granted privileges of different kinds or there were varying degrees of statute possibly represented in the recorded punzon listings which were no longer available when Palomares collected these at the Ayuntamiento in Toledo. I am afraid this brings us no closer to resolving the curious mark at the forte on this blade, but an interesting foray into Spanish markings just the same.