Torador once again.

Pukka Bundook · 5th February 2017, 04:07 PM

Rather than leave you worrying about the above mess, here are some pics of stage 2;

Had some very similar rosewood fortunately, for patching!

rickystl · 5th February 2017, 05:26 PM

Hi Richard.

WOW !!! That stock repair looks like it's coming along just fine. Great Work !!!
The use of metal rods versus wood pegs is a great idea in this case. Especially with that type of break, and the length of the butt stocks on these guns. And looks like that rosewood blended in very nice. Thanks for the pics with the update. I still like the iron mounts on these guns better than the brass mounts, especially if engraved.
YES!! I can see the hole in the rear of the breech block on yours also. OK. Used for snuffing the match. That was the only thought that occured to me. But when I looked in the hole of mine I could not see any evidence that it had been used for that purpose. Maybe it just had not been used. Also, I would think there would be some type of brass tube inside the hole for this use. But it would not really be necessary. Anyway, thanks for clearing this up. It's been one of those things that's bugged me for some time now. LOL.
Come to think of it, I have a supply of brass tubing in different diameters. Maybe I'll make a brass insert for the hole ? LOL

Rick

Pukka Bundook · 6th February 2017, 05:35 AM

Rick,

It just occurred to me that most decent pipes are made of rosewood, (Often called briar in smoking circles) and They don't burn away very fast, so merely snuffing a match would cause no problems whatsoever, LOL!

Pleased you think it's coming along.
The forestock had the rusty remains of a linen lining, so removed this and replaced it. New liner glued in. Then greased said liner and will grease barrel to ensure no rust forming.
I can see some areas where organic (I believe) bands have been, so will replace these as well.
Does yours have a band right at the tip of the foreend? This one has a chatty tin band there that is broken. I feel it would originally have been placed further back, on the metal re-enforcing.
I will have a look at your completed matchlock again, to see if this is of help, as they both obviously come from the same stable.

Has opportunity arisen for you to try yours yet? ...mine is getting close!

Richard.

Edited to add;
Rick, you may find this interesting! I did. :-)

http://jot101.com/2013/01/the-native...tiger-hunting/

rickystl · 7th February 2017, 12:04 AM

Hi Richard.

That linen lining is interesting. Never seen that before. The front barrel band on mine sits over the brass reinforcing band about an inch behind the front tip of the stock. Think I posted a pic of the muzzle here. If not, let me know and I'll post it. On my I-Pad at the moment. Have to be at my laptop.

Thanks for that Link !!! I'll read that tomorrow morning.

Haven't tried her out yet. Will probably be early Spring before I do. Can't wait

Since your's don't have any original barrel bands left, any feel yet for what you might use ?

Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 7th February 2017, 12:15 AM

Rick,

I can see lighter coloured lines around the stock, and darker lines around the barrel where possibly leather bands have been tied. Maybe four or five wraps on average, so can use leather, Or, I can use linen twine as I have some. Can't break it, and if waxed will last for ages.

Nice thing about an organic binding, is it doesn't hurt or alter anything and can be changed at any time! Also, such banding will tighten the barrel into the stock better than trying to make tight metal bands, and get them shoved on!........especially as the flared muzzle is larger than part of the barrel where bands would fit.

I like the idea of the organic binding. :-)

Hope you enjoy the link. I did. :-)
Just looked at Eggerton , and the Jaipur matchlocks illustrated or mentioned have leather bindings, so there we are! Also the ones in Elgood's book "Arms of the Jaipur Court " also has an example of a Jaipur -produced gun with leather bindings. Nice when what we surmise turns out to be a fact. (Not saying All had leather bindings, but they were common)

rickystl · 12th February 2017, 03:12 PM

Hi Richard.

Knowing what we now know lol. I too would go with the leather bands. Maybe a dark brown ? How do you think the interior of the barrel looks ?

Rick

Pukka Bundook · 12th February 2017, 04:56 PM

Rick,

The interior of the barrel has light pitting and a few more scaly areas.
Been wracking me brains how I can lightly emery it. Yes, I could stick emery on a rod and spin it in the drill!...But that can cause ringing if you don't keep the drill moving evenly.
I would rather scour it up and down the bore, rather than a revolving scouring.

*** I Did fire it yesterday!!!***

Went off Very fast, and no problems with bits falling off!
Sarah took some photos. :-)
Accuracy -wise not good. 50 yard group was about 15". Ball (.530") was a tad small for no patch, but was fired with a felt wad above and below, and only 60-odd grains of powder. (2F Go-Ex)
Tried a patched ball with a wad under it. (Need the wad to fill that slightly constricted area right at the breech. No chamber remember.) Said patched ball felt scratchy on the way down, and it tore the patches to bits on firing!
So, I do need to smooth up the bore a bit more. The sights work well, so it is all very promising.
It actually felt smoother already when it came to cleaning.
I noted the barrel was slightly bent, but decided to try it as it was, and it does appear to shoot a bit low.
I have in times past straightened a barrel, only to find I should have left it alone...that it was 'bent' for a purpose!
When I get some leather binding and have the barrel removed, I will alter it a bit and see how it does then. It's a lovely barrel though.

Bindings I have seen vary from dark brown to a light tan. Indian tastes being what they are, maybe even yellow, blue, or red would work! I'll see what I can find.

So, the Torador has been fired. Now it's Your turn! :-)

Best,
R.

5th February 2017, 04:07 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rather than leave you worrying about the above mess, here are some pics of stage 2; Had some very similar rosewood fortunately, for patching! Attached Images

6th February 2017, 05:35 AM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, It just occurred to me that most decent pipes are made of rosewood, (Often called briar in smoking circles) and They don't burn away very fast, so merely snuffing a match would cause no problems whatsoever, LOL! Pleased you think it's coming along. The forestock had the rusty remains of a linen lining, so removed this and replaced it. New liner glued in. Then greased said liner and will grease barrel to ensure no rust forming. I can see some areas where organic (I believe) bands have been, so will replace these as well. Does yours have a band right at the tip of the foreend? This one has a chatty tin band there that is broken. I feel it would originally have been placed further back, on the metal re-enforcing. I will have a look at your completed matchlock again, to see if this is of help, as they both obviously come from the same stable. Has opportunity arisen for you to try yours yet? ...mine is getting close! Richard. Edited to add; Rick, you may find this interesting! I did. :-) http://jot101.com/2013/01/the-native...tiger-hunting/ Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 6th February 2017 at 06:02 AM.

7th February 2017, 12:15 AM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, I can see lighter coloured lines around the stock, and darker lines around the barrel where possibly leather bands have been tied. Maybe four or five wraps on average, so can use leather, Or, I can use linen twine as I have some. Can't break it, and if waxed will last for ages. Nice thing about an organic binding, is it doesn't hurt or alter anything and can be changed at any time! Also, such banding will tighten the barrel into the stock better than trying to make tight metal bands, and get them shoved on!........especially as the flared muzzle is larger than part of the barrel where bands would fit. I like the idea of the organic binding. :-) Hope you enjoy the link. I did. :-) Just looked at Eggerton , and the Jaipur matchlocks illustrated or mentioned have leather bindings, so there we are! Also the ones in Elgood's book "Arms of the Jaipur Court " also has an example of a Jaipur -produced gun with leather bindings. Nice when what we surmise turns out to be a fact. (Not saying All had leather bindings, but they were common) Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 7th February 2017 at 04:00 AM.

5th February 2017, 05:26 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Richard. WOW !!! That stock repair looks like it's coming along just fine. Great Work !!! The use of metal rods versus wood pegs is a great idea in this case. Especially with that type of break, and the length of the butt stocks on these guns. And looks like that rosewood blended in very nice. Thanks for the pics with the update. I still like the iron mounts on these guns better than the brass mounts, especially if engraved. YES!! I can see the hole in the rear of the breech block on yours also. OK. Used for snuffing the match. That was the only thought that occured to me. But when I looked in the hole of mine I could not see any evidence that it had been used for that purpose. Maybe it just had not been used. Also, I would think there would be some type of brass tube inside the hole for this use. But it would not really be necessary. Anyway, thanks for clearing this up. It's been one of those things that's bugged me for some time now. LOL. Come to think of it, I have a supply of brass tubing in different diameters. Maybe I'll make a brass insert for the hole ? LOL Rick

7th February 2017, 12:04 AM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Richard. That linen lining is interesting. Never seen that before. The front barrel band on mine sits over the brass reinforcing band about an inch behind the front tip of the stock. Think I posted a pic of the muzzle here. If not, let me know and I'll post it. On my I-Pad at the moment. Have to be at my laptop. Thanks for that Link !!! I'll read that tomorrow morning. Haven't tried her out yet. Will probably be early Spring before I do. Can't wait Since your's don't have any original barrel bands left, any feel yet for what you might use ? Rick.

12th February 2017, 03:12 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Richard. Knowing what we now know lol. I too would go with the leather bands. Maybe a dark brown ? How do you think the interior of the barrel looks ? Rick

12th February 2017, 04:56 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, The interior of the barrel has light pitting and a few more scaly areas. Been wracking me brains how I can lightly emery it. Yes, I could stick emery on a rod and spin it in the drill!...But that can cause ringing if you don't keep the drill moving evenly. I would rather scour it up and down the bore, rather than a revolving scouring. * I Did fire it yesterday!!!* Went off Very fast, and no problems with bits falling off! Sarah took some photos. :-) Accuracy -wise not good. 50 yard group was about 15". Ball (.530") was a tad small for no patch, but was fired with a felt wad above and below, and only 60-odd grains of powder. (2F Go-Ex) Tried a patched ball with a wad under it. (Need the wad to fill that slightly constricted area right at the breech. No chamber remember.) Said patched ball felt scratchy on the way down, and it tore the patches to bits on firing! So, I do need to smooth up the bore a bit more. The sights work well, so it is all very promising. It actually felt smoother already when it came to cleaning. I noted the barrel was slightly bent, but decided to try it as it was, and it does appear to shoot a bit low. I have in times past straightened a barrel, only to find I should have left it alone...that it was 'bent' for a purpose! When I get some leather binding and have the barrel removed, I will alter it a bit and see how it does then. It's a lovely barrel though. Bindings I have seen vary from dark brown to a light tan. Indian tastes being what they are, maybe even yellow, blue, or red would work! I'll see what I can find. So, the Torador has been fired. Now it's Your turn! :-) Best, R.