Omani barrel.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th February 2017, 11:07 AM

Salaams Pukka Bundook, It is interesting that the dragon finials and dragons on tiles etc seems to have migrated across from Chinese to Persian designs and in the usual way that artisans were like spoils of war ...winner takes all...The classic Dragon style is the Dragon Chasing Fiery Pearl form like the style on the round plate below with a big central dragon and lesser dragons around the border...although the finials on quillons are a clear offshoot focused upon the dragon heads only...seen also on dragon head/serpentine locks on guns across a wide spectrum.

The Persian painting from FARIDUN IN THE GUISE OF A DRAGON TESTS HIS SONS: ILLUSTRATED FOLIO (F.42) FROM THE SHAHNAMEH OF SHAH TAHMASP, ATTRIBUTED TO AQA MIRAK, PERSIA, TABRIZ,illustrated with a white horse bottom right in the picture. ...Also displayed is Rostam fighting the big blue dragon about to slash it with his sword and many other examples in architecture, painting, metalworking, sculpture, ceramics,and illustrations on calligraphy and poetry etc etc display examples from Chinese influence including dragon form on Persian artefacts.

Dragon handles often adorn ewars and Jugs from Persia..also illustrated below. The Mughal rulers of India, who descended from rulers of Persia, inherited a taste for Chinese ceramics from their royal predecessors. Both Persian and Mughal painting frequently include images of Chinese ceramics, attesting to their popularity.

The black coloured Quillons with Dragon Finials is example of the use of dragons in Timurid weaponry similarly pictured in Islamic Arms by the late Anthony North..made of Jade.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th February 2017, 12:14 PM

Flicking back to guns... As you say there are two places where a dragon is included in Abu Futila design ...The pan and accompanying metalwork showing a dragons head and secondly The rear sight unit....

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th February 2017, 12:16 PM

Pukka Bundook · 5th February 2017, 02:33 PM

Thank you for adding these photos Ibrahiim, they do show the dragon well, and relationship between the sword finials and pan area.

All I can say is that there is more likelihood of these barrels coming from Persia or Northern India/Afghanistan, than there is of them coming from Germany as some think, and this because of the dragon heads.
I do not know of any Germanic tradition of using dragon heads on gun parts, Other than the serpent which holds the match....and cannons at the mouth.
Having said that, Germanic and Italian barrels from the 1500's could indeed be fluted Very like these!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th February 2017, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Thank you for adding these photos Ibrahiim, they do show the dragon well, and relationship between the sword finials and pan area.

All I can say is that there is more likelihood of these barrels coming from Persia or Northern India/Afghanistan, than there is of them coming from Germany as some think, and this because of the dragon heads.
I do not know of any Germanic tradition of using dragon heads on gun parts, Other than the serpent which holds the match....and cannons at the mouth.
Having said that, Germanic and Italian barrels from the 1500's could indeed be fluted Very like these!

Salaams Pukka Bundook~I have seen Portuguese and other European dragon/serpent locks on guns and whilst searching for a European armoury thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22315
I stumbled on this below...

Please see https://books.google.com.om/books?id...tols&f=falseon about page 127...128 showing dragon/serpentine locks. Fine detail on page 127 and the following pages goes on to further discuss the origins of the Dragon Motif on European guns.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Pukka Bundook · 6th February 2017, 03:01 PM

Dear Ibrahiim,

I too have seen dragon/serpent decoration on European Locks, but it is on the barrels, (apart from cannon), that I can not recall seeing dragons represented. The decoration on these in the O. P still appears Indo-Persian....with more of the emphasis on the Persian part!

As time permits, I will spend longer looking though! Some Italian barrels once owned by Henry V111 were fluted Vey like these in question, but do not recall any such dragon device around the pan.

Interesting subject, and one that is as painstaking as an archaeological dig!

Below are comparison between pulouar finials and pan decoration;

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th February 2017, 11:46 AM

Salaams Pukka Bundook ~That is an interesting play on the geometric figure 3 on sword and Matchlock..probably Talismanic...and looking at the rest of the pan construction I see a hollow rectangle reminding me of the hollow form on Talismanic archeological nails...apparently to prevent the Devil climbing up...See #10 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...itectural+Nail . All very interesting.

See~ http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/...ck.html:shrug:
for their rendition of MATCHLOCK/GUNS...with an exellent historical set of references on the Omani Matchlock and associated equipments..

On origin of species I saw this report recently at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket viz;

Quote"The arquebus made its way to the island of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), though the date is disputed. The earliest date is the 14th century where a copperplate inscription of Parakarama Bahu IV (1302-1326) refers to two persons who were declared exempt from certain taxes which included "gun licenses". Many believe that it was the Portuguese who first brought over muskets during their conquest of the Sri Lankan coastline and low lands in 1505, as they regularly used short barreled matchlocks during combat.

However, P.E.P.Deraniyagala points out that the Sinhala term for gun, ‘bondikula’ matches the Arabic term for gun, ‘bunduk’. Also, certain technical aspects of the early Sinhalese matchlock were similar to the matchlocks used in the Middle East, thus forming the generally accepted theory that the musket was not entirely new to the island by the time the Portuguese came.

In any case, soon native Sri Lankan kingdoms, most notably the kingdom of Sitawaka and the Kandyan Kingdom, manufactured hundreds of Sinhalese muskets, with a unique bifurcated stock, longer barrel and smaller calibre, which made it more efficient in directing and using the energy of the gunpowder. These were mastered by native soldiers to the point where, according to the Portuguese chronicler, Queirós, they could "fire at night to put out a match" and "by day at 60 paces would sever a knife with four or five bullets" and "send as many on the same spot in the target."Unquote.

Pukka Bundook · 7th February 2017, 03:54 PM

Dear Ibrahiim,

Very interesting regarding the talismanic nails!
I think you have "nailed" it!
The hollow rectangle you see in front of the pan is actually cut out in both directions, so is Exactly the same as the nails you show in the other thread.

This to me removes all doubt that the barrels are indeed Persian rather than German. Thank you for that!!

There is good reason to protect the touch-hole area from evil....do not want the devil messing up your powder igniting when it counts. :-)
I have attached your 'Nail " photos for the sake of clarity. Thank you again!
The second link you kindly posted will not work.

5th February 2017, 12:14 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Flicking back to guns... As you say there are two places where a dragon is included in Abu Futila design ...The pan and accompanying metalwork showing a dragons head and secondly The rear sight unit.... Attached Images

6th February 2017, 03:01 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Ibrahiim, I too have seen dragon/serpent decoration on European Locks, but it is on the barrels, (apart from cannon), that I can not recall seeing dragons represented. The decoration on these in the O. P still appears Indo-Persian....with more of the emphasis on the Persian part! As time permits, I will spend longer looking though! Some Italian barrels once owned by Henry V111 were fluted Vey like these in question, but do not recall any such dragon device around the pan. Interesting subject, and one that is as painstaking as an archaeological dig! Below are comparison between pulouar finials and pan decoration; Attached Images Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 6th February 2017 at 03:25 PM.

7th February 2017, 11:46 AM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Pukka Bundook ~That is an interesting play on the geometric figure 3 on sword and Matchlock..probably Talismanic...and looking at the rest of the pan construction I see a hollow rectangle reminding me of the hollow form on Talismanic archeological nails...apparently to prevent the Devil climbing up...See #10 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...itectural+Nail . All very interesting. See~ http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/...ck.html:shrug: for their rendition of MATCHLOCK/GUNS...with an exellent historical set of references on the Omani Matchlock and associated equipments.. On origin of species I saw this report recently at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket viz; Quote"The arquebus made its way to the island of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), though the date is disputed. The earliest date is the 14th century where a copperplate inscription of Parakarama Bahu IV (1302-1326) refers to two persons who were declared exempt from certain taxes which included "gun licenses". Many believe that it was the Portuguese who first brought over muskets during their conquest of the Sri Lankan coastline and low lands in 1505, as they regularly used short barreled matchlocks during combat. However, P.E.P.Deraniyagala points out that the Sinhala term for gun, ‘bondikula’ matches the Arabic term for gun, ‘bunduk’. Also, certain technical aspects of the early Sinhalese matchlock were similar to the matchlocks used in the Middle East, thus forming the generally accepted theory that the musket was not entirely new to the island by the time the Portuguese came. In any case, soon native Sri Lankan kingdoms, most notably the kingdom of Sitawaka and the Kandyan Kingdom, manufactured hundreds of Sinhalese muskets, with a unique bifurcated stock, longer barrel and smaller calibre, which made it more efficient in directing and using the energy of the gunpowder. These were mastered by native soldiers to the point where, according to the Portuguese chronicler, Queirós, they could "fire at night to put out a match" and "by day at 60 paces would sever a knife with four or five bullets" and "send as many on the same spot in the target."Unquote. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th February 2017 at 12:38 PM.

7th February 2017, 03:54 PM	#8
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Ibrahiim, Very interesting regarding the talismanic nails! I think you have "nailed" it! The hollow rectangle you see in front of the pan is actually cut out in both directions, so is Exactly the same as the nails you show in the other thread. This to me removes all doubt that the barrels are indeed Persian rather than German. Thank you for that!! There is good reason to protect the touch-hole area from evil....do not want the devil messing up your powder igniting when it counts. :-) I have attached your 'Nail " photos for the sake of clarity. Thank you again! The second link you kindly posted will not work. Attached Images Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 7th February 2017 at 04:11 PM.

5th February 2017, 11:07 AM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Pukka Bundook, It is interesting that the dragon finials and dragons on tiles etc seems to have migrated across from Chinese to Persian designs and in the usual way that artisans were like spoils of war ...winner takes all...The classic Dragon style is the Dragon Chasing Fiery Pearl form like the style on the round plate below with a big central dragon and lesser dragons around the border...although the finials on quillons are a clear offshoot focused upon the dragon heads only...seen also on dragon head/serpentine locks on guns across a wide spectrum. The Persian painting from FARIDUN IN THE GUISE OF A DRAGON TESTS HIS SONS: ILLUSTRATED FOLIO (F.42) FROM THE SHAHNAMEH OF SHAH TAHMASP, ATTRIBUTED TO AQA MIRAK, PERSIA, TABRIZ,illustrated with a white horse bottom right in the picture. ...Also displayed is Rostam fighting the big blue dragon about to slash it with his sword and many other examples in architecture, painting, metalworking, sculpture, ceramics,and illustrations on calligraphy and poetry etc etc display examples from Chinese influence including dragon form on Persian artefacts. Dragon handles often adorn ewars and Jugs from Persia..also illustrated below. The Mughal rulers of India, who descended from rulers of Persia, inherited a taste for Chinese ceramics from their royal predecessors. Both Persian and Mughal painting frequently include images of Chinese ceramics, attesting to their popularity. The black coloured Quillons with Dragon Finials is example of the use of dragons in Timurid weaponry similarly pictured in Islamic Arms by the late Anthony North..made of Jade. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 6th February 2017 at 08:07 AM.

5th February 2017, 12:16 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408

5th February 2017, 02:33 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Thank you for adding these photos Ibrahiim, they do show the dragon well, and relationship between the sword finials and pan area. All I can say is that there is more likelihood of these barrels coming from Persia or Northern India/Afghanistan, than there is of them coming from Germany as some think, and this because of the dragon heads. I do not know of any Germanic tradition of using dragon heads on gun parts, Other than the serpent which holds the match....and cannons at the mouth. Having said that, Germanic and Italian barrels from the 1500's could indeed be fluted Very like these!