F. de Luzon's Moro Kris Collection

Battara · 31st January 2017, 12:10 AM

I'm not sure I agree with the information regarding this example.

MOP was not common until the 20th century. Also this form is a 20th century form, not a 19th century form. And then, this type of kris is made in the Sulu region and not Mindanao.

BANDOOK · 31st January 2017, 02:02 AM

Thanks Battara
Its good to know that,i don't collect these weapons so good for my knowledge
Regards Rajesh

Ian · 3rd February 2017, 10:58 PM

Agree with Jose's dating for the same reasons he gives. The kris shown by VANDOO is a mid- to late-20th C. example in Sulu dress. These are readily found in antique shops in Manila or online. Although well made and from the original culture, I suspect they are produced mainly for sale to foreigners who travel.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I'm not sure I agree with the information regarding this example.

MOP was not common until the 20th century. Also this form is a 20th century form, not a 19th century form. And then, this type of kris is made in the Sulu region and not Mindanao.

Battara · 3rd February 2017, 11:10 PM

Ian is right. I will only add that some of these recent Sulu examples may be even laminated on occasion. I know this because I bought one years ago and it was laminated. Admittedly, that was probably made in the 1960s. Pieces coming out of the region today are more often mono-steel.

Rick · 4th February 2017, 01:46 AM

I had a small, child size kris of this vintage; two stirrups, silver but undecorated w/out any engraving on the blade. Same hilt, same knot work wrap.
I posted it here but can't find the old post with the search function.

It was a very sharp blade and competently formed; I believe I sold it to Lew some years ago before he passed on.

I miss Lew.

F. de Luzon · 11th February 2017, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I had a small, child size kris of this vintage; two stirrups, silver but undecorated w/out any engraving on the blade. Same hilt, same knot work wrap.
I posted it here but can't find the old post with the search function.

It was a very sharp blade and competently formed; I believe I sold it to Lew some years ago before he passed on.

I miss Lew.

Thanks for your comment Rick.

I have a kris that is smaller than the others in my collection and I've always wondered if it was a child's kris. The blade is only 17.5 inches long (44.5 cm) and the width is proportionate to the length. Below is a photo for your reference.

Please share your thoughts.

Ian · 11th February 2017, 09:58 PM

F. de Luzon:

Another nice kris. Not all small kris are necessarily children's kris. We should not forgot that some Moro women fought beside their husbands, brothers and fathers. I'm inclined to think some of these slightly shorter and slimmer versions may have been meant for women. Also, many of the older kris (pre-1800) were shorter and slimmer than those of 19th C Mindanao. I'm not suggesting that your smaller example is earlier than the 19th C, but we should not think that all short, slim kris were designed for children--they were definitely weapons and could be used as such by adults.

Attached below is an example of an 18th C. kris that is similar in length to your shorter example.

Ian.

----------------Attachment--18th C Moro kris------------------

.

F. de Luzon · 4th March 2017, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

F. de Luzon:

Another nice kris. Not all small kris are necessarily children's kris. We should not forgot that some Moro women fought beside their husbands, brothers and fathers. I'm inclined to think some of these slightly shorter and slimmer versions may have been meant for women. Also, many of the older kris (pre-1800) were shorter and slimmer than those of 19th C Mindanao. I'm not suggesting that your smaller example is earlier than the 19th C, but we should not think that all short, slim kris were designed for children--they were definitely weapons and could be used as such by adults.

Attached below is an example of an 18th C. kris that is similar in length to your shorter example.

Ian.

----------------Attachment--18th C Moro kris------------------

.

Thanks Ian! I agree. Despite its size, this blade is equally deadly. Aside from being for women or children, another probability is that it was designed to be concealed. Moros are known to have made blades for such purpose.

Thanks also for the reference photo!

Regards,

F. de Luzon

11th February 2017, 09:58 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	F. de Luzon: Another nice kris. Not all small kris are necessarily children's kris. We should not forgot that some Moro women fought beside their husbands, brothers and fathers. I'm inclined to think some of these slightly shorter and slimmer versions may have been meant for women. Also, many of the older kris (pre-1800) were shorter and slimmer than those of 19th C Mindanao. I'm not suggesting that your smaller example is earlier than the 19th C, but we should not think that all short, slim kris were designed for children--they were definitely weapons and could be used as such by adults. Attached below is an example of an 18th C. kris that is similar in length to your shorter example. Ian. ----------------Attachment--18th C Moro kris------------------ . Attached Images

31st January 2017, 12:10 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I'm not sure I agree with the information regarding this example. MOP was not common until the 20th century. Also this form is a 20th century form, not a 19th century form. And then, this type of kris is made in the Sulu region and not Mindanao.

31st January 2017, 02:02 AM	#2
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Thanks Battara Its good to know that,i don't collect these weapons so good for my knowledge Regards Rajesh

3rd February 2017, 11:10 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Ian is right. I will only add that some of these recent Sulu examples may be even laminated on occasion. I know this because I bought one years ago and it was laminated. Admittedly, that was probably made in the 1960s. Pieces coming out of the region today are more often mono-steel.

4th February 2017, 01:46 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I had a small, child size kris of this vintage; two stirrups, silver but undecorated w/out any engraving on the blade. Same hilt, same knot work wrap. I posted it here but can't find the old post with the search function. It was a very sharp blade and competently formed; I believe I sold it to Lew some years ago before he passed on. I miss Lew.