Bronze keris ?

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

My question is would the bronze make this more powerful or talismanic than the usual kris?

I believe that would all depend on the intent and purpose of the keris. I belief that Alan has suggested that bronze may have been used in certain keris because it was seen as a more appropriate metal for a blade used in blood sacrifice. However that is a more practical, albeit spiritual use for a blade, not necessarily talismanic. I could be wrong, but i am not sure there is any metal considered to hold more talismanic properties in this part of the world than iron. But if you are Hindu and making a blood sacrifice bronze might be preferable.
Marius, the only reason i might personally prefer a solid gold keris would be to melt it down and sell the ingot to buy an authentic old bronze one, which i gather are somewhat rarer than ones of gold. AFAIK no other metals are considered appropriate for a true keris other than iron and bronze. A gold one would be nothing more than sculpted money, yes? Does anyone have any photos of a bronze blade that could be considered authentic? If so it would be great to see one here.

[A. G. Maisey]

This was published in my "Interpretation ---" article.

I do not own it.

[satsujinken]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This was published in my "Interpretation ---" article.

I do not own it.

got an offer for something like that, recently found buried in rice field near a river in Bojonegoro

this type as you are well aware is (supposedly) from Kabudhan or Majapahit era. They said old keris like this has mendak intergrated as part of the blade, and the pesi is square shaped

looked like bronze, but it rusted ... does bronze rust ? what do you think, Alan ?

Donny

[Jean]

Bronze does not rust since it does not contain any iron but it gets oxidized (blue or black spots). For how long was this kris buried in a rice field?

[satsujinken]

Originally Posted by Jean

Bronze does not rust since it does not contain any iron but it gets oxidized (blue or black spots). For how long was this kris buried in a rice field?

I honestly don't know, the current owner said he bought it from a farmer in Bojonegoro, who found the blade when digging for irrigation ditch

have to check first whether Bojonegoro has civilisation during Majapahit era


Donny

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by satsujinken

got an offer for something like that, recently found buried in rice field near a river in Bojonegoro

this type as you are well aware is (supposedly) from Kabudhan or Majapahit era. They said old keris like this has mendak intergrated as part of the blade, and the pesi is square shaped

looked like bronze, but it rusted ... does bronze rust ? what do you think, Alan ?

Donny

Nope, bronze does not rust but it oxidizes and gets corroded.

However, this piece does NOT display any typical signs of an antique bronze blade but it appears to be recently made and artificially aged.

The asertion that it was found burried in a rice field my be genuine since I supposed that's part of the artificial aging process.

Regards,

Marius

PS: I have handled a few genuine antique bronze pieces but I believe that for every single genuine bronze piece on the market there are 1000 fakes. The Chinese have become particularly proficient at faking antique Warring States period and Luristan swords. However this example in my oppinion is very far from the "quality" of Chinese fakes that are getting close to perfection these days.

[satsujinken]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Nope, bronze does not rust but it oxidizes and gets corroded.

However, this piece does NOT display any typical signs of an antique bronze blade but it appears to be recently made and artificially aged.

The asertion that it was found burried in a rice field my be genuine since I supposed that's part of the artificial aging process.

Regards,

Marius

PS: I have handled a few genuine antique bronze pieces but I believe that for every single genuine bronze piece on the market there are 1000 fakes. The Chinese have become particularly proficient at faking antique Warring States period and Luristan swords. However this example in my oppinion is very far from the "quality" of Chinese fakes that are getting close to perfection these days.

you may be right, what I see is actually if the item was buried for 700 years or so, and it was made from iron, the corrosion rate should be higher and evenly spread

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by satsujinken

you may be right, what I see is actually if the item was buried for 700 years or so, and it was made from iron, the corrosion rate should be higher and evenly spread

Exactly! But this is only one of the points.


You can easily check if it is iron or not with a magnet, like for the "wooden" keris.