F. de Luzon's Moro Kris Collection

[Robert]

Thank you! Here are some samples of krises with sea turtle shell (as far as I was told) on the scabbard and pommel. I saw them as I was "hunting" for pieces for my collection.

Hello F. de Luzon, Though the smaller photo in post #24 shows what looks like decorative hawksbill turtle shell plates on the scabbard without being able to see these in person it would be almost impossible to tell if they are real, or faux turtle shell made from bull or buffalo horn or even plastic. All of these materials should be readily available in the Philippines. I would be leary about spending the money usually associated with items made from genuine turtle shell without having it checked by an expert first. I believe that hawksbill are a protected species so if you purchase anything made from their shell (if it is even legal to own there) it would most likely be illegal to export.

Best,
Robert

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Robert

Hello F. de Luzon, Though the smaller photo in post #24 shows what looks like decorative hawksbill turtle shell plates on the scabbard without being able to see these in person it would be almost impossible to tell if they are real, or faux turtle shell made from bull or buffalo horn or even plastic. All of these materials should be readily available in the Philippines. I would be leary about spending the money usually associated with items made from genuine turtle shell without having it checked by an expert first. I believe that hawksbill are a protected species so if you purchase anything made from their shell (if it is even legal to own there) it would most likely be illegal to export.

Best,
Robert

That is very sound advice Robert. I inquired about the legality of the use of turtle shells from the shop owner and was told that the ones on sale were made in the 1940s-1950s, when it was still legal in the Philippines. Today, it is illegal to use them but the antiques can still be sold.

Now, in light of your comment, I just realized that it may be impossible to distinguish old from new (at least based on pictures). It would thus be most prudent to avoid them to discourage the sale of products made of turtle parts, as well as to avoid the risk of violating the law.

I'm relieved that the inlaid crosspiece on the scabbard that I purchased turned out to be made of horn. Thanks again for your advice. I am taking it very seriously.

F. de Luzon

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

It would thus be most prudent to avoid them to discourage the sale of products made of turtle parts, as well as to avoid the risk violating the law.

I know that sea turtles get hunted still in Indonesia, of course it's forbidden by law but there is no control. I've seen not long ago on Bali sate from sea turtle on a market and on Halmahera I've seen a lot of sea turtle carapaces, when I told the people that it is forbidden to hunt them they were very surprised.

[Spunjer]

welcome, F.!
you have a beautiful collection! i can't add anything else as to what everyone said. all i can say is, happy hunting!
my very first piece came from Davao. i acquired it when i was there. i did stop at some of the antique stores in MM. favorite was Mang Ven's in Ermita. did find some at one of the bigger malls (can't remember the name).
it's all nice to see a new collector!

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

welcome, F.!
you have a beautiful collection! i can't add anything else as to what everyone said. all i can say is, happy hunting!
my very first piece came from Davao. i acquired it when i was there. i did stop at some of the antique stores in MM. favorite was Mang Ven's in Ermita. did find some at one of the bigger malls (can't remember the name).
it's all nice to see a new collector!

Thanks for the warm welcome and for appreciating my modest collection, Spunjer! Davao and Metro Manila have been my hunting grounds as well. Mang Ven's is also my favorite place. He's a nice guy, very accommodating with lots of interesting stories to tell. I saw your post on the very impressive Maranao blade. I hope to get as lucky as you one day.

F. de Luzon

[F. de Luzon]

I etched #4 and had a new scabbard made. The wood is Kamagong (also called Mabolo), a variety of ebony endemic to the Philippines. It is a highly esteemed wood but I have never seen it on an antique Moro scabbard before. Probably, the reason is because it is dense and heavy. While based on traditional Moro design, the scabbard is in the style of the makers (well known blacksmiths from the Province of Pangasinan) and thus modern.

Here are some pictures showing the condition of the kris at the time of purchase, after initial restoration and finally, after etching. I think it turned out nicely.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

The wood is Kamagong (also called Mabolo), a variety of ebony endemic to the Philippines. It is a highly esteemed wood but I have never seen it on an antique Moro scabbard before. Probably, the reason is because it is dense and heavy.

I agree. I have worked with kamagong before as well as narra and paduk (a cousin to narra) and these are not only dense, but they dull steel edges and tools (they have dulled mine for example). I usually see kamagong reserved for Moro hilts.

[apolaki]

Originally Posted by Battara

I agree. I have worked with kamagong before as well as narra and paduk (a cousin to narra) and these are not only dense, but they dull steel edges and tools (they have dulled mine for example). I usually see kamagong reserved for Moro hilts.

Are you familiar with Ipil wood and Molave wood and do know if they are used as well in weaponry or in other contexts?

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by apolaki

Are you familiar with Ipil wood and Molave wood and do know if they are used as well in weaponry or in other contexts?

Herbert W. Krieger mentions both types of wood as used in making native weapons in "The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armor of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum" (Washington: 1926, 13). He also mentions molave as material used for war clubs (pp. 46-47)

[kai]

I etched #4 and had a new scabbard made. The wood is Kamagong (also called Mabolo), a variety of ebony endemic to the Philippines. It is a highly esteemed wood but I have never seen it on an antique Moro scabbard before. Probably, the reason is because it is dense and heavy. While based on traditional Moro design, the scabbard is in the style of the makers (well known blacksmiths from the Province of Pangasinan) and thus modern.

Nice wood for sure!

IMVHO it may pay to "educate" them on traditional designs for such custom projects. Even if one prefers to keep the additional carving on the crosspiece, it would look much nicer if the base of the crosspiece was flush with the stem (at least in my book - sorry, I'm a stiffler for tradition, I guess ).

Here are some pictures showing the condition of the kris at the time of purchase, after initial restoration and finally, after etching. I think it turned out nicely.

Wow, I'm glad that you rescued this kris - the blade did came out very nice!

Could you add some close-ups of the blade for getting a better glimpse on the laminations, please?

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Nice wood for sure!

IMVHO it may pay to "educate" them on traditional designs for such custom projects. Even if one prefers to keep the additional carving on the crosspiece, it would look much nicer if the base of the crosspiece was flush with the stem (at least in my book - sorry, I'm a stiffler for tradition, I guess ).



Wow, I'm glad that you rescued this kris - the blade did came out very nice!

Could you add some close-ups of the blade for getting a better glimpse on the laminations, please?

Regards,
Kai

Hi F. de Luzon,

second all comments from Kai. The wood is nice for sure, the carving well done but it would look much nicer to my eyes when it would have been done in traditional manner.

Best regards,
Detlef

[F. de Luzon]

Hello Kai and Detlef. I completely understand your preference for traditional design. I had this made in the style of the makers because the material used was non-traditional. I just wanted a scabbard made of kamagong (I really like this wood ) If ever I have another scabbard made, it will be as traditional as it can get.

Kai, attached is the photo you requested. Thank you both for your comments!

Regards,

F. de Luzon