F. de Luzon's Moro Kris Collection

[F. de Luzon]

Close up of details of #3:

Wrangka, inlaid front and plain back

Buntut, inlaid front and plain back

[kai]

Thanks for posting the additional pics! (I was slow with my reply... )

Close up of details of #3:
Wrangka, inlaid front and plain back
Buntut, inlaid front and plain back

The plain backsides do look carabao to me. The front sides don't come out very well but are mottled and seem to have a different surface structure: could be tortoise, indeed.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

The front sides don't come out very well but are mottled and seem to have a different surface structure: could be tortoise, indeed.

Hi Kai,

would be the first time that I see tortoise on such a scabbard, do you have an example you can show?

Best regards,
Detlef

[Robert]

The plain backsides do look carabao to me. The front sides don't come out very well but are mottled and seem to have a different surface structure: could be tortoise, indeed.

Most if not all of the mottled look to the carabao horn on the front of the scabbard is delamination (separation of the layers in the horn) that was most likely caused by the heat created when the holes were first drilled into it. If enough heat is generated from the use of dull drilling tools this damage can be seen when first done or not until years later when drying and shrinkage from age can affect the horn and put extra stress on the material at these points. Impact from other objects can cause this as well. JMHO.

Best,
Robert

[Battara]

Congratulations on your new collection!

Kris 1:
Looks to me to be a crossover Maguindanao/Sulu blade with a recent clamp. I also think the hilt is much later, made of gold plated brass filigree. But the ivory pommel looks to me to be a later carving style and the patina might be artificially done to make it look older (an old Filipino/Moro trick for quicker sales). Blade might be turn of 20th century. This type of hilt is for datus and other nobility.

The scabbard is new and Sulu.

Kris 2:
This is truly nice - a great and fantastic Maranao blade! The pommel is nice burled and patina narra wood. I find this the best of the 3. Maybe for a high ranking warrior but not a datu?

The scabbard is recent, but truly Maranao in okir and wranga (top of scabbard) style.

Kris 3:
This kris seems to have an early 20th century crossover Sulu blade. The pommel may be the same time period, though I often see these on 1950s pieces. Not sure if the hilt rings are silver or silver plate over copper (they are newer and I have seen plated copper before).

The scabbard is recent Sulu with aluminum accents through out the scabbard (plates and pins), and sections of mother-of-pearl, and colored bone inside plates of carabao horn. The wrappings are rattan.

Kris 4:
This kris appears to be from the end of the 19th to the turn of the 20th century. The blade is Maranao but the clamps seem Sulu-ish to me. The pommel style is danganan and is somewhat rare, being made of solid horn. For a high ranking warrior or a low ranking datu? Good to have the hemp wrap complete with only some of the lacquer worn off. Too bad the pommel "tail" is broken off.

All of these kris could use some acid etching to bring out the different laminations in the blades, which they did.

I hope these answer some of your questions. You are off to a good start!

[F. de Luzon]

Thanks Kai, Detlef, Vandoo, Robert and Battara for your insights! I'm developing an even greater appreciation of these swords because of your comments. Much appreciated!

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Battara

Congratulations on your new collection!

Kris 1:
Looks to me to be a crossover Maguindanao/Sulu blade with a recent clamp. I also think the hilt is much later, made of gold plated brass filigree. But the ivory pommel looks to me to be a later carving style and the patina might be artificially done to make it look older (an old Filipino/Moro trick for quicker sales). Blade might be turn of 20th century. This type of hilt is for datus and other nobility.

The scabbard is new and Sulu.

Kris 2:
This is truly nice - a great and fantastic Maranao blade! The pommel is nice burled and patina narra wood. I find this the best of the 3. Maybe for a high ranking warrior but not a datu?

The scabbard is recent, but truly Maranao in okir and wranga (top of scabbard) style.

Kris 3:
This kris seems to have an early 20th century crossover Sulu blade. The pommel may be the same time period, though I often see these on 1950s pieces. Not sure if the hilt rings are silver or silver plate over copper (they are newer and I have seen plated copper before).

The scabbard is recent Sulu with aluminum accents through out the scabbard (plates and pins), and sections of mother-of-pearl, and colored bone inside plates of carabao horn. The wrappings are rattan.

Kris 4:
This kris appears to be from the end of the 19th to the turn of the 20th century. The blade is Maranao but the clamps seem Sulu-ish to me. The pommel style is danganan and is somewhat rare, being made of solid horn. For a high ranking warrior or a low ranking datu? Good to have the hemp wrap complete with only some of the lacquer worn off. Too bad the pommel "tail" is broken off.

All of these kris could use some acid etching to bring out the different laminations in the blades, which they did.

I hope these answer some of your questions. You are off to a good start!

Thanks for the thorough discussion and the encouragement, Battara!

[Croccifixio]

I think we go to the same places as I live in Manila and frequent the antique shops there as well as a few in Quezon City. Very nice examples too. I echo Battara. I have very very similar kris (one of yours is likely the sister of mine). Please do try to etch them if you're willing. The beauty in their blades really pop out when etched!

[F. de Luzon]

I finally finished cleaning and etching the latest addition to my collection. I will start a new thread about it and add more pictures, to make things less complicated. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22242

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Kai,

would be the first time that I see tortoise on such a scabbard, do you have an example you can show?

Best regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef,

Thank you! Here are some samples of krises with sea turtle shell (as far as I was told) on the scabbard and pommel. I saw them as I was "hunting" for pieces for my collection.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

Hi Detlef,

Thank you! Here are some samples of krises with sea turtle shell (as far as I was told) on the scabbard and pommel. I saw them as I was "hunting" for pieces for my collection.

Hi F. de Luzon,

yes agree, the plate on the small picture seems to be indeed from turtle shell. The other picture isn't clear enough to build me an opinion.

Regards,
Detlef

[Robert]

Thank you! Here are some samples of krises with sea turtle shell (as far as I was told) on the scabbard and pommel. I saw them as I was "hunting" for pieces for my collection.

Hello F. de Luzon, Though the smaller photo in post #24 shows what looks like decorative hawksbill turtle shell plates on the scabbard without being able to see these in person it would be almost impossible to tell if they are real, or faux turtle shell made from bull or buffalo horn or even plastic. All of these materials should be readily available in the Philippines. I would be leary about spending the money usually associated with items made from genuine turtle shell without having it checked by an expert first. I believe that hawksbill are a protected species so if you purchase anything made from their shell (if it is even legal to own there) it would most likely be illegal to export.

Best,
Robert

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Robert

Hello F. de Luzon, Though the smaller photo in post #24 shows what looks like decorative hawksbill turtle shell plates on the scabbard without being able to see these in person it would be almost impossible to tell if they are real, or faux turtle shell made from bull or buffalo horn or even plastic. All of these materials should be readily available in the Philippines. I would be leary about spending the money usually associated with items made from genuine turtle shell without having it checked by an expert first. I believe that hawksbill are a protected species so if you purchase anything made from their shell (if it is even legal to own there) it would most likely be illegal to export.

Best,
Robert

That is very sound advice Robert. I inquired about the legality of the use of turtle shells from the shop owner and was told that the ones on sale were made in the 1940s-1950s, when it was still legal in the Philippines. Today, it is illegal to use them but the antiques can still be sold.

Now, in light of your comment, I just realized that it may be impossible to distinguish old from new (at least based on pictures). It would thus be most prudent to avoid them to discourage the sale of products made of turtle parts, as well as to avoid the risk of violating the law.

I'm relieved that the inlaid crosspiece on the scabbard that I purchased turned out to be made of horn. Thanks again for your advice. I am taking it very seriously.

F. de Luzon

[Spunjer]

welcome, F.!
you have a beautiful collection! i can't add anything else as to what everyone said. all i can say is, happy hunting!
my very first piece came from Davao. i acquired it when i was there. i did stop at some of the antique stores in MM. favorite was Mang Ven's in Ermita. did find some at one of the bigger malls (can't remember the name).
it's all nice to see a new collector!

[BANDOOK]

Here is another example which does not belong to me,but thought would share it for discussion
regards Rajesh

[BANDOOK]

Overall length -68 cms

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Here is another example which does not belong to me,but thought would share it for discussion
regards Rajesh

Thanks for sharing, Rajesh!

[Victrix]

This book may be of interest to the historically inclined amongst you.

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Victrix

This book may be of interest to the historically inclined amongst you.

Thanks Vitrix! Antonio de Morga's "Sucesos..." is one of the popular primary sources on the early Spanish era here in the Philippines. The annotated version by the Philippine national hero, Jose Rizal is even a school reading for some students. Is that your personal copy?

Kind regards,

Fernando