Keris putut Kembar

kai · 30th December 2016, 11:13 AM

Hello Karel,

I find these type of keris terribly difficult to evaluate - it's a bit like keris sajen where examining the metal becomes paramount (something that is next to impossible to do from even good pics).

From looking at the pics only, I'd rather tend to see more wear at Jean's example (which doesn't necessarily translate into age, of course) and patina on the fittings. I don't know the provenance of your piece, but this would be perfectly preserved if it were antique and even early collected...

Likewise, I don't see any signs of the gandar being old - it's certainly possible/likely to have been worked over when the wronko/gambar got replaced. Either way, it doesn't make much of a difference, I guess.

The hilt is certainly an unusual combination and doesn't look that old to me, too. Despite its somewhat "tribal" feel, the figure seems to carry an arm in the right hand. In old hilts from Bali (associated with Rangda) this seems invariably carried left, doesn't? Also the arm has been separated from the indistinct carrying hand by making a cut with a saw (inadvertantly cutting into the hanging left arm, too); in really old hilts I'd expect such features to be carved, even when done under more "tribal" circumstances. If an pre-WW2 origin can be established by provenance, this hilt is certainly worthy to be kept for future research though!

Regards,
Kai

E-brain · 14th January 2017, 10:51 AM

Gentlemen,

It took some time te respond.
I'm not very handy, so i'm not very keen on dismantling a keris.
(puting it all back together is not an easy task for me.)
Knowing some fellow keris-collectors will visite me later on today made me take the opportunity because at least one of them will be willing and able to put it back together again.
Old for me is at least 100 years.

Regards,

Karel

A. G. Maisey · 14th January 2017, 07:17 PM

Current era, Aeng Tong-Tong

David · 14th January 2017, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Current era, Aeng Tong-Tong

Thanks for confirming my suspicions on this keris Alan. Can you elaborate at all as to what specifically identifies this keris as having an Aeng Tong-Tong origin as opposed to any other current era keris making center?

A. G. Maisey · 14th January 2017, 10:01 PM

If it quacks like a duck ---

I've handled a lot of ducks David.

Sajen · 14th January 2017, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If it quacks like a duck ---

I've handled a lot of ducks David.

ariel · 15th January 2017, 04:44 AM

Anyone noticed that the the carved female face awfully resembles Lady Liberty?

Jean · 15th January 2017, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Current era, Aeng Tong-Tong

Thank you Alan, it did not look obvious to me and I assume that my piece is from the same origin in spite of the authenticity guarantee from the seller....
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 15th January 2017, 10:38 AM

Probably so Jean.

14th January 2017, 10:51 AM	#2
E-brain Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kampen, The Netherlands Posts: 7	Gentlemen, It took some time te respond. I'm not very handy, so i'm not very keen on dismantling a keris. (puting it all back together is not an easy task for me.) Knowing some fellow keris-collectors will visite me later on today made me take the opportunity because at least one of them will be willing and able to put it back together again. Old for me is at least 100 years. Regards, Karel Attached Images

30th December 2016, 11:13 AM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Karel, I find these type of keris terribly difficult to evaluate - it's a bit like keris sajen where examining the metal becomes paramount (something that is next to impossible to do from even good pics). From looking at the pics only, I'd rather tend to see more wear at Jean's example (which doesn't necessarily translate into age, of course) and patina on the fittings. I don't know the provenance of your piece, but this would be perfectly preserved if it were antique and even early collected... Likewise, I don't see any signs of the gandar being old - it's certainly possible/likely to have been worked over when the wronko/gambar got replaced. Either way, it doesn't make much of a difference, I guess. The hilt is certainly an unusual combination and doesn't look that old to me, too. Despite its somewhat "tribal" feel, the figure seems to carry an arm in the right hand. In old hilts from Bali (associated with Rangda) this seems invariably carried left, doesn't? Also the arm has been separated from the indistinct carrying hand by making a cut with a saw (inadvertantly cutting into the hanging left arm, too); in really old hilts I'd expect such features to be carved, even when done under more "tribal" circumstances. If an pre-WW2 origin can be established by provenance, this hilt is certainly worthy to be kept for future research though! Regards, Kai

14th January 2017, 07:17 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Current era, Aeng Tong-Tong

14th January 2017, 10:01 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	If it quacks like a duck --- I've handled a lot of ducks David.

15th January 2017, 04:44 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Anyone noticed that the the carved female face awfully resembles Lady Liberty?

15th January 2017, 10:38 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Probably so Jean.