"Armour Piercing Keris" ???

David · 24th December 2016, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As worn in formal style, at the back.

Thanks Alan. Now that you say that i do recall the term from recent discussion.

A. G. Maisey · 24th December 2016, 11:18 PM

Many years ago I was given perhaps one of the most valuable lessons I have ever received in relation to Javanese communication.

It goes without saying that it is absolutely essential for a person from outside the society to be able to understand the way in which Javanese people sometimes choose to communicate, if that person wishes to understand the message that is being delivered to him.

Very briefly:- words do not always mean what they may appear to mean, the core message behind the words needs to be read. To read the message behind the words, the words themselves need to be examined, the way in which they are delivered needs to be examined, the time and place needs to be taken account of, and especially in face to face communication the body language must be noted and interpreted.

Then there is the problem of the Javanese language itself:- a word can mean whatever the speaker intends it to mean, the word itself may not even be a part of a generally accepted lexicon --- a bit like Humpty Dumpty.

The lesson I received all those years ago was one of the most valuable I have ever received in relation to my understanding of the way in which Javanese society works, and most especially to keris study.

Gustav gave us an excellent image of a very scarce object, this type of thing is as I have already remarked, very seldom seen. They do exist, but the number of times I have actually held one in my hands could be counted on the fingers of one hand.

What Gustav also us was an opportunity for me to try to give to all those who are following this thread an opportunity to receive the same lesson that I received perhaps 35 or 40 years ago. The similarity in circumstance is virtually the same, the only difference is that I got my lesson face to face, I have attempted to provide the same lesson here in writing.

I suggest that you go back to my post #45 and look very closely at the words I have used.

When you understand what I have done you will be in a much better position to understand information coming from a Javanese source in future.

Jean · 25th December 2016, 04:41 PM

Hello Alan,
Your post#45 looks pretty straightforward, but do you actually mean that the Bugis kris dress is not adequate?

Best regards

24th December 2016, 11:18 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Many years ago I was given perhaps one of the most valuable lessons I have ever received in relation to Javanese communication. It goes without saying that it is absolutely essential for a person from outside the society to be able to understand the way in which Javanese people sometimes choose to communicate, if that person wishes to understand the message that is being delivered to him. Very briefly:- words do not always mean what they may appear to mean, the core message behind the words needs to be read. To read the message behind the words, the words themselves need to be examined, the way in which they are delivered needs to be examined, the time and place needs to be taken account of, and especially in face to face communication the body language must be noted and interpreted. Then there is the problem of the Javanese language itself:- a word can mean whatever the speaker intends it to mean, the word itself may not even be a part of a generally accepted lexicon --- a bit like Humpty Dumpty. The lesson I received all those years ago was one of the most valuable I have ever received in relation to my understanding of the way in which Javanese society works, and most especially to keris study. Gustav gave us an excellent image of a very scarce object, this type of thing is as I have already remarked, very seldom seen. They do exist, but the number of times I have actually held one in my hands could be counted on the fingers of one hand. What Gustav also us was an opportunity for me to try to give to all those who are following this thread an opportunity to receive the same lesson that I received perhaps 35 or 40 years ago. The similarity in circumstance is virtually the same, the only difference is that I got my lesson face to face, I have attempted to provide the same lesson here in writing. I suggest that you go back to my post #45 and look very closely at the words I have used. When you understand what I have done you will be in a much better position to understand information coming from a Javanese source in future.

25th December 2016, 04:41 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Your post#45 looks pretty straightforward, but do you actually mean that the Bugis kris dress is not adequate? Best regards