Zanzibari (?) Saif for Comment

Jim McDougall · 21st December 2016, 09:10 PM

In looking to Buttin (1933), in the photos of a good number of these swords which we refer to colloquially as 'nimcha' they are described only as sa'if. In the plate with the familiar 'ring' or 'loop' guard and the distinctive peak atop the pommel of the hilt, these are described only as 'Arab' sa'if with no mention of Zanzibar. These are mostly labeled with optimism as 17th c with one (996) even to end of 16th.
It must be remembered this research and material was compiled probably in early years of 20th c.

The Moroccan examples (Maghrebi, incuding both Morocco and Algeria) are also described as sa'if with the pommel flatter and no peak. There is no loop or ring guard, just the downturned multi quillon system.

The only 'Zanzibar' designation seemed to derive from mostly collector terms which seems to have appeared in the book by Alain Jacob in the 1980s I think. Louis-Pierre Cavalliere in his paper on these a number of years ago also included that term.

I think Ibrahiim found the most compelling evidence linking these peaked pommel sabres with ring loop guard and some without with the linking of local material culture motif from Zanzibar on one of these. I think the form may be most properly served by 'Arab' however they seem most prevalent in that trade from India to Oman and Red Sea...from there of course to Zanzibar.

I agree the brass work on the guard on this one posted is 'thin' and clearly made 'in the style of'.
The 'X' and lines type of motif is seen stamped in the forte of some examples of these nimcha variations; they are seen on some knives and items believed from Afghan regions (some mistaken for the 'Royal Seal' Mazir I Sharif); as well as on some kaskara and Ethiopian cases if I recall.

While the blade here is of course 19th century sabre of trade or military type probably German, the hilt is much more modern recalling styles and motif from the Arab trade in the India-Arabia-Red Sea networks.

Richard G · 21st December 2016, 10:09 PM

I would go down Jim's route. It could be one of those curious hybrids that Yemen and the Red Sea coast often produce. Also, I would not rule out Sumatra or somewhere like that, produced for or under the influence of the Arab trading communities there that were once quite significant.
Regards
Richard

Jim McDougall · 21st December 2016, 11:21 PM

Thanks Richard. Actually my first encounter with these loop guard types was in the 90s and I was informed the one I bought had come from an old arsenal in Yemen and was one of around 40 there. These were said to have come from Zanzibar. Given the trade routes and supply from there to Red Sea ports, and along the Arabian entrepots that seemed quite plausible.

TVV · 22nd December 2016, 02:13 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments, some very good observations and questions.

I believe the hilt, as far as the horn part is concerned, is as old as the blade. Are the brass fittings newer? It is possible, but hard for me to tell for sure. I am attaching two pictures of a sword with a similar hilt, which I believe was sold in one of Auctions Imperial past auctions. I hope Oliver would not mind me using those images for comparison purposes here. The guard is very similar, down to the X pattern on the knuckle bow.

Richard could be on to something as well. The brass fittings do have a certain SE Asian feel to them. Besides, when it comes to the blade, the closest one I have in my collection is on a piso podang, from the other end of the Indian Ocean, but certainly within the trade network of Arab and Swahili traders from the coasts of East Africa.

Regards,
Teodor

Jim McDougall · 22nd December 2016, 05:22 PM

SE Asia was very much an extension of the trade networks being discussed from East Africa and Red Sea to India.....and from there eastward. Trade was of course not from one location to another in extreme distances, but interaction in ports of call and entrepots throughout these networks. It is well known that trade blades commonly seen in Africa, Arabia and India are found in SE Asia just as shown in the piso podang. I have seen these with the same 'Assad Adullah' Persian trade blades seen in Bedouin sabres.

The diffusion of all aspects of cultures and nations diffused constantly through these routes, which presents the ever present conundrums we face in trying to classify many weapon forms.

The excellent example of the sa'if form we term 'nimcha' shown by Stu seems to me the 'classic' form we regard as Zanzibari but as discussed certainly of far broader scope in actual use. The iron guard and beautifully fluted grips are features indicating earlier example with solid character of such weapons genuinely in use and worn accordingly.

These examples being discussed in the original post with good old blades, but refurbished with thin, rudimentary mounts in easily worked brass, and with scribed in motif recalling other symbols and marks are clearly more modern creations.

In the curious motif being noted, the X and lines, these may well be aesthetically adopted devices which appealed to the fabricators who furbished these weapons. In the case of the example shown in comparison by Teodor, interestingly the same close in downturned quillons are seen, and the noted 'X' motif present on the thin brass mounts.
While not suggesting a connection, I would note that these X's with dots inside each segment were also a cypher with Masonic associations (known as the 'pigpen' cypher) used in numeric codes along with others.

kahnjar1 · 22nd December 2016, 06:48 PM

The second lot of pics posted by Teodor also IMHO show a later addition of a guard to an original hilt. Whilst the decoration on the knuckle guard and quillons is similar in both cases, the actual guard itself would, in my opinion not be much use in protecting the users hand due to the thin metal used.
Though obviously not the "original" guard, none the less the maker has spent some time to nicely decorate his work.
Maybe we could term this a "tribal" sword. I have a number of these which show grades of making, ranging from quite good to really rough.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 22nd December 2016, 07:46 PM

I think 'tribal' as good a term as any. In more recent times it seems swords were put together from old components for no better reason than the notion of military fashioned groups wearing them in a traditional sense.
The swords from Yemen were simply ersatz weapons for such wear during the many insurgencies there in the civil wars etc. Rank and file did not always have firearms so any weapon would do.

Also, in a 'parade' context, a large showing of 'forces' wearing swords in ceremonial or other elaborate events would be most impressive. However, these weapons despite using sound old blades, were not serviceable as far as combat weapons.
Think of a contingent of mounted forces in some colonial region riding in review and all wearing swords which look good, but close inspection not so much.

Ethnographic weapons likely have a good many weapons of traditional forms put together in more recent times in these kinds of capacities.

22nd December 2016, 02:13 AM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Gentlemen, Thank you for your comments, some very good observations and questions. I believe the hilt, as far as the horn part is concerned, is as old as the blade. Are the brass fittings newer? It is possible, but hard for me to tell for sure. I am attaching two pictures of a sword with a similar hilt, which I believe was sold in one of Auctions Imperial past auctions. I hope Oliver would not mind me using those images for comparison purposes here. The guard is very similar, down to the X pattern on the knuckle bow. Richard could be on to something as well. The brass fittings do have a certain SE Asian feel to them. Besides, when it comes to the blade, the closest one I have in my collection is on a piso podang, from the other end of the Indian Ocean, but certainly within the trade network of Arab and Swahili traders from the coasts of East Africa. Regards, Teodor Attached Images

21st December 2016, 09:10 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	In looking to Buttin (1933), in the photos of a good number of these swords which we refer to colloquially as 'nimcha' they are described only as sa'if. In the plate with the familiar 'ring' or 'loop' guard and the distinctive peak atop the pommel of the hilt, these are described only as 'Arab' sa'if with no mention of Zanzibar. These are mostly labeled with optimism as 17th c with one (996) even to end of 16th. It must be remembered this research and material was compiled probably in early years of 20th c. The Moroccan examples (Maghrebi, incuding both Morocco and Algeria) are also described as sa'if with the pommel flatter and no peak. There is no loop or ring guard, just the downturned multi quillon system. The only 'Zanzibar' designation seemed to derive from mostly collector terms which seems to have appeared in the book by Alain Jacob in the 1980s I think. Louis-Pierre Cavalliere in his paper on these a number of years ago also included that term. I think Ibrahiim found the most compelling evidence linking these peaked pommel sabres with ring loop guard and some without with the linking of local material culture motif from Zanzibar on one of these. I think the form may be most properly served by 'Arab' however they seem most prevalent in that trade from India to Oman and Red Sea...from there of course to Zanzibar. I agree the brass work on the guard on this one posted is 'thin' and clearly made 'in the style of'. The 'X' and lines type of motif is seen stamped in the forte of some examples of these nimcha variations; they are seen on some knives and items believed from Afghan regions (some mistaken for the 'Royal Seal' Mazir I Sharif); as well as on some kaskara and Ethiopian cases if I recall. While the blade here is of course 19th century sabre of trade or military type probably German, the hilt is much more modern recalling styles and motif from the Arab trade in the India-Arabia-Red Sea networks.

21st December 2016, 10:09 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 409	I would go down Jim's route. It could be one of those curious hybrids that Yemen and the Red Sea coast often produce. Also, I would not rule out Sumatra or somewhere like that, produced for or under the influence of the Arab trading communities there that were once quite significant. Regards Richard

21st December 2016, 11:21 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Thanks Richard. Actually my first encounter with these loop guard types was in the 90s and I was informed the one I bought had come from an old arsenal in Yemen and was one of around 40 there. These were said to have come from Zanzibar. Given the trade routes and supply from there to Red Sea ports, and along the Arabian entrepots that seemed quite plausible.

22nd December 2016, 05:22 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	SE Asia was very much an extension of the trade networks being discussed from East Africa and Red Sea to India.....and from there eastward. Trade was of course not from one location to another in extreme distances, but interaction in ports of call and entrepots throughout these networks. It is well known that trade blades commonly seen in Africa, Arabia and India are found in SE Asia just as shown in the piso podang. I have seen these with the same 'Assad Adullah' Persian trade blades seen in Bedouin sabres. The diffusion of all aspects of cultures and nations diffused constantly through these routes, which presents the ever present conundrums we face in trying to classify many weapon forms. The excellent example of the sa'if form we term 'nimcha' shown by Stu seems to me the 'classic' form we regard as Zanzibari but as discussed certainly of far broader scope in actual use. The iron guard and beautifully fluted grips are features indicating earlier example with solid character of such weapons genuinely in use and worn accordingly. These examples being discussed in the original post with good old blades, but refurbished with thin, rudimentary mounts in easily worked brass, and with scribed in motif recalling other symbols and marks are clearly more modern creations. In the curious motif being noted, the X and lines, these may well be aesthetically adopted devices which appealed to the fabricators who furbished these weapons. In the case of the example shown in comparison by Teodor, interestingly the same close in downturned quillons are seen, and the noted 'X' motif present on the thin brass mounts. While not suggesting a connection, I would note that these X's with dots inside each segment were also a cypher with Masonic associations (known as the 'pigpen' cypher) used in numeric codes along with others.

22nd December 2016, 06:48 PM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	The second lot of pics posted by Teodor also IMHO show a later addition of a guard to an original hilt. Whilst the decoration on the knuckle guard and quillons is similar in both cases, the actual guard itself would, in my opinion not be much use in protecting the users hand due to the thin metal used. Though obviously not the "original" guard, none the less the maker has spent some time to nicely decorate his work. Maybe we could term this a "tribal" sword. I have a number of these which show grades of making, ranging from quite good to really rough. Stu

22nd December 2016, 07:46 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	I think 'tribal' as good a term as any. In more recent times it seems swords were put together from old components for no better reason than the notion of military fashioned groups wearing them in a traditional sense. The swords from Yemen were simply ersatz weapons for such wear during the many insurgencies there in the civil wars etc. Rank and file did not always have firearms so any weapon would do. Also, in a 'parade' context, a large showing of 'forces' wearing swords in ceremonial or other elaborate events would be most impressive. However, these weapons despite using sound old blades, were not serviceable as far as combat weapons. Think of a contingent of mounted forces in some colonial region riding in review and all wearing swords which look good, but close inspection not so much. Ethnographic weapons likely have a good many weapons of traditional forms put together in more recent times in these kinds of capacities.