Combination Spear Head and Percussion Barrel

Marcus · 17th November 2016, 05:18 AM

I am waiting for this to arrive:
http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=7276
What is missing is as interesting as what is there. How did they make it fire?
Does anyone know a complete example?
Marcus

Oliver Pinchot · 17th November 2016, 08:01 AM

It had a hollow steel haft threaded at one end to mate with the head.
Inside this was fitted a mechanism consisting of a sprung plunger which struck a percussion cap fitted over the nipple when the pop-out trigger was pulled, firing the weapon. In order to cock it, you unscrewed the pommel at the butt end and gave it a smart tug. This system was used in other types of hafted weapons as well as in riding crops.

rickystl · 18th November 2016, 09:30 PM

Hi Marcus. What an interesting and beautiful weapon. Congratulations. Love the detail. Yes, too bad the lower haft is missing. That would be just as interesting. The short length of the barrel leads me to believe this was a short-range, close combat type weapon, with the lower haft being much shorter than typical spear length. Very neat item. Maybe about 1840 or later ?

Oliver: Thanks for the explanation on the firing mechanism.

Actually, I'm glad I don't own this item. I would probably be trying to figure out how to make a new lower haft to put it back in full operation. LOL

Rick

Jens Nordlunde · 18th November 2016, 10:43 PM

It would interst me to know, why no one seems to be interested in the age and a place or origin!!

Marcus · 18th November 2016, 11:04 PM

Of course interested. Ideas? Comments?

By the way, another theory I have had a couple people express, consistent with Rick's comment, is that this was intended to just discharge on impact with a target to augment the effect of the spear blade. One person likened it to a "bangstick", a spear with a shotgun shell used by divers to fend off a shark. The shell is discharged when you shove the spear against the shark.

Marcus · 20th November 2016, 03:33 PM

I am wondering if it was specifically intended for (tiger) hunting rather than as a weapon of war.

rickystl · 20th November 2016, 04:38 PM

Hi Marcus.

Artzi mentions it's Indian, last half of the 19th Century. The "general" time frame for percussion fired guns was from about 1835 through 1870. But it could have been used latter. The tiger head and decoration do seem to confirm Indian manufacture.
The thought occured to me that this may have been a private purchase for personal protection type of weapon. If the rear haft were short enough, it could be carried under a cloak, hidden from view. It doesn't appear to have seen battle type use. But I notice the tip of the spear head is thicker than the rest of the blade. Possibly for piercing plate armour?
It's certainally one of the more interesting and attractive weapons I've seen.
Do take some more photos after you receive it.

Rick

Jens Nordlunde · 20th November 2016, 07:01 PM

I have never seen this before, but maybe you will get some hint fro looking at hunt/war miniatures.

iskender · 22nd November 2016, 06:47 PM

dear gentlemen, a similar combination wapen was sold on 11 and 12 dezember in luzern. there is a good picture in the auktions-catalogue on page 275 lot.nr 1514. it has a flintlock and is mounted on its original haft 219cm long, apearently there is a part missing,so maybe it could be extended. i cannot upload a picture now because my camera made a big jump into the see as i was climming the cyclops in sicily. greetings iskender

Marcus · 23rd November 2016, 09:56 PM

The more I think about this, the more I believe it was better suited for hunting than as a weapon of war or defense. Likewise, the position of the percussion nipple would make it difficult to strike with a conventional hammer/lock mechanism.

rickystl · 23rd November 2016, 11:25 PM

Hi Marcus.

Thanks so much for the additional pics. Good job with the camera !! LOL
The mechanism to fire the barrel would be as Oliver suggests above. Somewhat similar to the operation of a cane gun, used for personal protection.

It could have been used for hunting. Maybe similar to the boar hunting spears that were popular in Europe. But I can't see getting that close to a tiger, even with a longer haft.

But the short length of the barrel tells me it was an up-close weapon. Too bad the lower haft is missing. It's length might answer some of these questions.
The whole piece is obviously a forging. This was not made for an arsenal, but for a private individual of means. The chisel work on the blade is beautiful. The whole piece is both interesting and intriging.

Rick

17th November 2016, 05:18 AM	#1
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Combination Spear Head and Percussion Barrel I am waiting for this to arrive: http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=7276 What is missing is as interesting as what is there. How did they make it fire? Does anyone know a complete example? Marcus

18th November 2016, 11:04 PM	#5
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	interested in the age and a place or origin Of course interested. Ideas? Comments? By the way, another theory I have had a couple people express, consistent with Rick's comment, is that this was intended to just discharge on impact with a target to augment the effect of the spear blade. One person likened it to a "bangstick", a spear with a shotgun shell used by divers to fend off a shark. The shell is discharged when you shove the spear against the shark.

20th November 2016, 03:33 PM	#6
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	purpose I am wondering if it was specifically intended for (tiger) hunting rather than as a weapon of war.

22nd November 2016, 06:47 PM	#9
iskender Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 60	fischer auktion 2014 dear gentlemen, a similar combination wapen was sold on 11 and 12 dezember in luzern. there is a good picture in the auktions-catalogue on page 275 lot.nr 1514. it has a flintlock and is mounted on its original haft 219cm long, apearently there is a part missing,so maybe it could be extended. i cannot upload a picture now because my camera made a big jump into the see as i was climming the cyclops in sicily. greetings iskender

23rd November 2016, 09:56 PM	#10
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	new pictures The more I think about this, the more I believe it was better suited for hunting than as a weapon of war or defense. Likewise, the position of the percussion nipple would make it difficult to strike with a conventional hammer/lock mechanism. Attached Images

17th November 2016, 08:01 AM	#2
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	It had a hollow steel haft threaded at one end to mate with the head. Inside this was fitted a mechanism consisting of a sprung plunger which struck a percussion cap fitted over the nipple when the pop-out trigger was pulled, firing the weapon. In order to cock it, you unscrewed the pommel at the butt end and gave it a smart tug. This system was used in other types of hafted weapons as well as in riding crops.

18th November 2016, 09:30 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Marcus. What an interesting and beautiful weapon. Congratulations. Love the detail. Yes, too bad the lower haft is missing. That would be just as interesting. The short length of the barrel leads me to believe this was a short-range, close combat type weapon, with the lower haft being much shorter than typical spear length. Very neat item. Maybe about 1840 or later ? Oliver: Thanks for the explanation on the firing mechanism. Actually, I'm glad I don't own this item. I would probably be trying to figure out how to make a new lower haft to put it back in full operation. LOL Rick

18th November 2016, 10:43 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	It would interst me to know, why no one seems to be interested in the age and a place or origin!!

20th November 2016, 04:38 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Marcus. Artzi mentions it's Indian, last half of the 19th Century. The "general" time frame for percussion fired guns was from about 1835 through 1870. But it could have been used latter. The tiger head and decoration do seem to confirm Indian manufacture. The thought occured to me that this may have been a private purchase for personal protection type of weapon. If the rear haft were short enough, it could be carried under a cloak, hidden from view. It doesn't appear to have seen battle type use. But I notice the tip of the spear head is thicker than the rest of the blade. Possibly for piercing plate armour? It's certainally one of the more interesting and attractive weapons I've seen. Do take some more photos after you receive it. Rick

20th November 2016, 07:01 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I have never seen this before, but maybe you will get some hint fro looking at hunt/war miniatures.

23rd November 2016, 11:25 PM	#11
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Marcus. Thanks so much for the additional pics. Good job with the camera !! LOL The mechanism to fire the barrel would be as Oliver suggests above. Somewhat similar to the operation of a cane gun, used for personal protection. It could have been used for hunting. Maybe similar to the boar hunting spears that were popular in Europe. But I can't see getting that close to a tiger, even with a longer haft. But the short length of the barrel tells me it was an up-close weapon. Too bad the lower haft is missing. It's length might answer some of these questions. The whole piece is obviously a forging. This was not made for an arsenal, but for a private individual of means. The chisel work on the blade is beautiful. The whole piece is both interesting and intriging. Rick