Marks on Walloon sword for id.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

PS I found the page you attached in the Leger Museum article, thank you again for including it before.

i took it from JP Puype -blanke wapens p 47, the original drawing is from Michel petard.


best,
jasper

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

i took it from JP Puype -blanke wapens p 47, the original drawing is from Michel petard.


best,
jasper

Thank you Jasper, much appreciated.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Not knowing a lot about these swords I have to say what a great thread this is. The knowledge displayed by Forum on this subject is very much respected. Thank you for the fine detail and a superb thread. I ran into another example at http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/coll...e/? irn=249330 and at http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13795 I was particularly interested in the play with numbers noted by Jim and on another thread on Forum at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=walloon and further detail at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=walloon

My question is ...Since SAHAGUN appears to be a Spanish sword making family name ~ Has the name been copied onto Solingen swords as a measure of quality...like Andrea Ferrera etc...?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[werecow]

The 1414 is of course a palindrome with talismanically 'lucky' numbers along with the omnipresent 'running wolf'. While of course suggesting Solingen, where these were commonly on blades, it is interesting that they are combined with the TO mark and as noted, associated in English context as described in Mowbray .

Could this be a reference to Exodus 14:14?

"The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still."

[Triarii]

That's a good idea. I've often read that they're cabalistic numbers, but with no explanation as to why *those* particular numbers were chosen. I like that suggestion.

[fernando]

Both numbers 1414 and 1441 appear together with the Passau wolf in XVI century sword blades. These magic numbers are multiples and combinations of the number "7", a divine number, thought to be a cry for God's help, like the Arabs used the "Allah il Allah". Reference to the bible ', from the book of Job (old testament) chapter 14 paragraph 14: Do you believe that dead a man will live again? Every day that i spend now in this war, i'm waiting until my mutation arrives.. Luther, well heard in XVI century German, interpreted that from the Greek as: When a man dies he will be reborn. So i will continue to fight until my time comes.
See here a XVI century Portuguese Colonial sword with the magic number "1441" and the Passau woolf engraved on the blade (Collection Rainer Daehnhardt).


.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by fernando

Both numbers 1414 and 1441 appear together with the Passau wolf in XVI century sword blades. These magic numbers are multiples and combinations of the number "7", a divine number, thought to be a cry for God's help, like the Arabs used the "Allah il Allah". Reference to the bible ', from the book of Job (old testament) chapter 14 paragraph 14: Do you believe that dead a man will live again? Every day that i spend now in this war, i'm waiting until my mutation arrives.. Luther, well heard in XVI century German, interpreted that from the Greek as: When a man dies he will be reborn. So i will continue to fight until my time comes.
See here a XVI century Portuguese Colonial sword with the magic number "1441" and the Passau woolf engraved on the blade (Collection Rainer Daehnhardt).
.

Probably a better explanation than I offered in the previous post. We can’t be sure but seems plausible.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by werecow

Could this be a reference to Exodus 14:14?

"The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still."

Quite possibly. I first encountered the idea that these numbers could refer to bible verses in a museum in Northern Sweden, and find it plausible. Not sure why the colon doesn’t appear though. Bible verses were familiar with most in the Protestant Northern Europe (including Amsterdam) and a reference like that would have been understood at the time.

It could also refer to John 14:14: ”12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.”