A cup hilt rapier for id.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by fernando

...Actually none of my cuphilted swords have a finger ring; neither you see this detail so often in cup hilts.

Unless this was a later addition ...

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Unless this was a later addition ...

Maybe, but why?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Maybe, but why?

Well, more than a fashion, the owner must have viewed it as a useful thing, to ensure a good handling control. Better than not having it, anyway .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Well, more than a fashion, the owner must have viewed it as a useful thing, to ensure a good handling control. Better than not having it, anyway .

That does seem pragmatically possible, and considering the fact that this might be a dramatically important factor for that very reason, even more so. I had thought of the German thumb ring, but those are at rear of grip and perpendicular to quillons or guard contrary to this example.

I often forget that swords in these times were intended for use in life threatening circumstances (looking more at historical factors) and that not only were they kept serviceable, but such custom features, blade shortening and sharpening etc. were regular requirements.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... I had thought of the German thumb ring, but those are at rear of grip and perpendicular to quillons or guard contrary to this example...

Maybe the difference resides in that there are thumb rings and finger rings and their distinct approach ... what do i know .
Still in Jean-Luc's example you manage to fold your forefinger around the ricasso behind the cup, a traditional position, and your thumb locking in that 'extra' ring. Can you hold dreaming ?


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[Jim McDougall]

Exactly! Who can forget the many discussions trying to figure out the mysteries of the small tulwar grip sizes on Indian swords and the so called 'Indian ricasso' on the blade near hilt. It seems it was finally noted about the European swordsmanship manner of wrapping finger around quillon.
Just as with the tulwars, it does seem the grip area on these rapiers were often quite small relative to the hand size, so these kinds of adjustments were understandable, unless ya had real small hands.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... it does seem the grip area on these rapiers were often quite small relative to the hand size, so these kinds of adjustments were understandable, unless ya had real small hands.

But while short grips in Indian swords were a (sort of) standard situation, i believe the majority of cup hilt swords grips had normal lengths, notwithstanding relatively short ones were so because as, the manner to hold the sword with finger/s wraping the front section, would not need them to be made larger. Still you have extreme situations, where pondering on such fashion results in examples like the one attached, where only three fingers could hold the actual grip. The civilian that owned this sword was certainly a short fellow, its blade only measuring 83 cms.

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