Lulu Celiko (or something else?)

[kai]

Congrats, Russel, nice scoop!

IMHO, it is a luju celiko, indeed. I have one with a hilt in the same direction (pic to follow); AFAIK, Albert's account is based on a single source (Kreemer).

I'm ready to bet your's also suassa...

Regards,
Kai

[Battara]

I took a look at the pictures off eBay and, though hard to tell from the bad pictures, it does look like suassa to me. However, it would be best to get it tested by a jeweler to make sure.

[kai]

Here is my example; the scabbard is probably a later replacement. I haven't seen any rencong-style scabbard before - your's looks quite convincing though.

As with Lopah Petawaran, these seem to be ceremonial blades only. Both types are probably based in (Karo?) Batak and possibly old Gayo cultures; probably the concept dispersed northwards upon increased contacts between Gayo and Alas with Aceh: the rencong is related, of course.

BTW, the drawing is from Volz (usually reliable despite the sketches being a bit coarse): this example has 2 "crowns" (probably an integral bolster and another similar ring) at the base of the hilt as also found on some Lopah Petawaran and clearly a saruek ulat as found on some Gayo and a few Aceh status pieces; the scabbard might be Karo.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Here is my example;

Hello Kai,

neat! Seems to be a fairly old example with a much younger scabbard. Haven't seen Russel's example by ebay but some other members, maybe good like this because a lulu celiko is on my wish list.

When I look again to the shown picture I am as well nearly sure that Russel will find that the handle is from suassa.

Regards,
Detlef

[russel]

Thanks everyone for the comments, I am very happy that my identification is confirmed.

After searching the forum, and Google, I have found no other examples than the two posted here. Can I conclude from this that these are rather scarce?

Mention has been made that these were ceremonial/ritual knives, does anyone have details of how they were used? Van Zonneveld writes only that they were worn by the groom at weddings.

Russel

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by russel

Can I conclude from this that these are rather scarce?

Van Zonneveld writes only that they were worn by the groom at weddings.

Hi Russel,

yes, to my knowledge they are very rare. Like said, great catch, don't forget to post better pictures when you have received it. And I don't know not more about them as you but have seen maybe a few more as you.

Best regards,
Detlef

[russel]

Hello all,

Robert has kindly provided some clearer images, and has also confirmed that the handle material is indeed Suassa (14k).

I am still trying to learn more about these knives, and would greatly appreciate any information forum members may have.

Russel

[Sajen]

Very nice!

[DaveA]

Hello,

Here is a sketch of a Hulu Dandan style hilt found on rencong in Sumatra. It is fairly rare. I think it may be a good match for your item. The Hulu Dandan was a high prestige hilt and this corresponds well with the triple crowns on your example.

This sketch is one I found on an Indonesian website years ago. That link no longer seems to be working.

Best,

Dave A.

[mariusgmioc]

Hello,

Not that I am a specialist in gold alloys but 14k is already gold, as gold is the base metal (14k I think means 14 parts pure gold in 24 parts total alloy).

I didn't think it can have such a copperish colour.

Very beautiful knife!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I didn't think it can have such a copperish colour.

Hello Marius,

have look here, written from Russel: "Robert tested the handle three times, the result was 14k each time." Maybe the pictures feint a little bit.

Regards,
Detlef

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Marius,

have look here, written from Russel: "Robert tested the handle three times, the result was 14k each time." Maybe the pictures feint a little bit.

Regards,
Detlef

Yep, got it. So it is gold. I guess it is just gold and copper and it got the colour from the copper within.

I just never seen such reddish gold (not that it means anything).



PS: I like this colour much more that that of pure gold.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Yep, got it. So it is gold. I guess it is just gold and copper and it got the colour from the copper within.

I just never seen such reddish gold (not that it means anything).



PS: I like this colour much more that that of pure gold.

I don't know by which reason it's like this but I know for example that gold from Bali look different than gold from Java, Javanes gold is more yellow and Bali gold has a reddish colour.

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Dave,

Here is a sketch of a Hulu Dandan style hilt found on rencong in Sumatra. It is fairly rare. I think it may be a good match for your item. The Hulu Dandan was a high prestige hilt and this corresponds well with the triple crowns on your example.

Hulu dandan tend to be on the big side of things (considering rencong hilts)!

The typical hilt for a luju celiko is the hulu paroh blesekan and these are considerably smaller (as are the ceremonial blades). There is not much published evidence and I'd really like to see more examples - hopefully the forumites can contribute a few more!

Russel's example has a somewhat smoother flow of lines while mine shows more clearly different parts of the hilt which seems to relate to the hulu dandan configuration. One could argue that hulu dandan, hulu paroh blesekan, and hulu jongo form a kind of continuum but I believe we should stick to the traditional definitions unless we have really good evidence to the contrary...

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

I've got several keris with pendoks made from suasa, they're all what a jeweller here (in Australia) would call rose gold, I don't know what the purity of the gold in these pendoks is, I've never had it tested, but what I do know is that the colour of gold depends upon the way it has been alloyed, gold + silver = yellow, gold + copper = red, ie, rose gold.

About 20 years ago in Solo I saw a man who was widely regarded as the best craftsman in metal for keris related objects, making a pendok out of suasa, he didn't call it suasa, he called it " emas merah" = red gold.

I have a Balinese keris that is 100% old and 100% Bali, the hilt is yellow gold, the pendok is rose gold.

The place where gold is fabricated doesn't dictate the colour, it is the way in which it has been alloyed, and that can change depending on many factors. In fact, although the usual metals that are alloyed with gold are silver and copper, it is my understanding that upon analysis we can find other metals as well, such as tin, or nickel or even zinc --- maybe other metals too.

As to whether or not suasa is indeed gold, that is perhaps a matter of perception. My understanding is that there is an old law that dates back to pocket watch days in the USA, that gold of less than 14kt. could not be called "gold". So, legally, in the USA you probably cannot have 9kt. gold, but here in Australia jewellers do a pretty good trade in 9kt. gold.

Yes, 1karat = 1/24 of the whole.

In Central Jawa metal that only contains a little bit of gold, say 5kt. or 6kt is referred to as "emas muda" = "young gold".

Then of course we have pinchbeck --- but that's another story.

Edit
Just a further short note on gold artifacts in general, that have come out of Indonesia. Archaic gold artifacts are very valuable items, there have been a couple of finds of hordes of buried gold artifacts in Jawa, notably the Wonoboyo hoard that was found in 1990. From time to time farmers and builders find odd small and large pieces of gold. Almost invariably these small private finds are offered to dealers in markets such as Pasar Triwindu, in Solo.
Over the years I have often been offered such gold artifacts, a few have even been genuine, but the vast bulk of archaic gold artifacts, including death masks and royal paraphernalia, that is offered for sale in Jawa are very skillful forgeries.
This raises the question of how one is able to detect such a forgery. Well, it helps if happen to know the dealer and/or the forger very well.

[Battara]

With 14k rose gold there is more copper and less silver. Regular 14k yellow gold has more silver and less copper. Even 18k gold has to have some copper in it to give strength to the gold.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

With 14k rose gold there is more copper and less silver. Regular 14k yellow gold has more silver and less copper. Even 18k gold has to have some copper in it to give strength to the gold.

Yes, agree with you and Alan, this will be the logical reason.