Scottish Skean Dhu

Battara · 12th October 2016, 04:02 AM

Glad you got this to a jeweler.

Topaz - a little more expensive but not unheard of........

rickystl · 15th October 2016, 03:29 PM

Hi Corado.

That's a beauty. And very well detailed. I've read that these smaller ones were often referred to as Sock Knives. As in foot sock. Congrats.

Rick

kronckew · 15th October 2016, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Corado.

That's a beauty. And very well detailed. I've read that these smaller ones were often referred to as Sock Knives. As in foot sock. Congrats.

Rick

yup as they are worn tucke into the top of the sock folded over, knife on outside on your strong/dominant hand side. longer ones are dirks and worn suspened from the belt.

like this:

rickystl · 15th October 2016, 09:40 PM

Yes. That's it. Good illistration.

Pukka Bundook · 16th October 2016, 05:30 AM

Good illustration, but only the top half of the hilt should show (at the most)
Wearing it as illustrated above would likely get it lost when walking..

Norman McCormick · 16th October 2016, 07:20 PM

Hi,
Probably it should not show at all as it is a Black Knife (hidden knife) and would only be on show in the stocking top when in company as a show of good faith i.e. you can see my knife so I'm not about to do anything with it I shouldn't while in your company!
This is one interpretation of the origins of the Sgian Dhu when a small utility knife was the only 'weapon' allowed during the English banning of wearing and bearing arms in some parts of Scotland and how it came to be worn in the stocking top.
Regards,
Norman.

fernando · 16th October 2016, 07:39 PM

Learning

.

Jim McDougall · 16th October 2016, 07:48 PM

Actually I believe that traditionally, the skean dubh would have been entirely concealed in the stocking. As told in the familiar lore of Scotland, or as I was told, these hidden knives came about with the Scottish practice of always being well armed even in the most everyday situations. It was customary however to put down your arms in visits or meeting situations as a sign of truce or peaceful interaction.

That was until the fateful events at Glencoe, when clansmen in a weeklong visit and trustingly disarmed, were cruelly massacred by their hosts in a well planned and deceitful act.

After this, while giving up the bulk of his arms, the clansman kept a sort of back up weapon in his stocking, the small but deadly knife, skean dubh,
In Gaelic, the term skean =knife and dubh, has often been taken to mean black.
However in its more common simile, it actually means 'dark' or more directly, hidden. Therefore it is a 'hidden' knife.
By the same token, in Gaelic, the famed "Black Watch" regiment actually began as a covert 'undercover' unit used by the British to patrol Highland regions and maintain control. Therefore the eventual sobriquet for the regiment when formalized was not for black or somber toned apparel but the 'hidden' purpose of its formation.

In my own surname, in Gaelic, MacDhubghaill, means, son of the 'dark' foreigner, therefore unclear origins

or so family lore goes .

Norman.....we crossed posts!!!!

I remain curious on the 'jimping' or notching along the blade at the back, often I think on dirks as well. I think this was for the utility purposes in many cases....scaling fish?

Norman McCormick · 16th October 2016, 08:18 PM

Hi Jim,
Hope you are well these days and still travelling. On the subject of the Black Watch, my mother always called the distinctive Black Watch tartan "A Government Tartan" and always with sarcasm and disdain in her voice. I'm not sure exactly why as on her side of the family we were/are Lowland Scots/Ulster Irish and therefore probably on the side of the Govt., but possibly not always with the expected degree of commitment. Way back the regiment, I believe, was used to implement Govt policy and naturally this would have given rise to a certain dislike and I presume this dislike was passed down the generations.
My Regards,
Norman.

Battara · 17th October 2016, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I remain curious on the 'jimping' or notching along the blade at the back, often I think on dirks as well. I think this was for the utility purposes in many cases....scaling fish?

I thought this notching was for thumb placement, even on dirks starting from the early 19th century. Makes a better grip for the thumb so it won't slip as easily.

12th October 2016, 04:02 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Glad you got this to a jeweler. Topaz - a little more expensive but not unheard of........

15th October 2016, 03:29 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Corado. That's a beauty. And very well detailed. I've read that these smaller ones were often referred to as Sock Knives. As in foot sock. Congrats. Rick

15th October 2016, 09:40 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Yes. That's it. Good illistration.

16th October 2016, 05:30 AM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Good illustration, but only the top half of the hilt should show (at the most) Wearing it as illustrated above would likely get it lost when walking..

16th October 2016, 07:20 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,632	Hi, Probably it should not show at all as it is a Black Knife (hidden knife) and would only be on show in the stocking top when in company as a show of good faith i.e. you can see my knife so I'm not about to do anything with it I shouldn't while in your company! This is one interpretation of the origins of the Sgian Dhu when a small utility knife was the only 'weapon' allowed during the English banning of wearing and bearing arms in some parts of Scotland and how it came to be worn in the stocking top. Regards, Norman.

16th October 2016, 07:39 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Learning .

16th October 2016, 07:48 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,454	Actually I believe that traditionally, the skean dubh would have been entirely concealed in the stocking. As told in the familiar lore of Scotland, or as I was told, these hidden knives came about with the Scottish practice of always being well armed even in the most everyday situations. It was customary however to put down your arms in visits or meeting situations as a sign of truce or peaceful interaction. That was until the fateful events at Glencoe, when clansmen in a weeklong visit and trustingly disarmed, were cruelly massacred by their hosts in a well planned and deceitful act. After this, while giving up the bulk of his arms, the clansman kept a sort of back up weapon in his stocking, the small but deadly knife, skean dubh, In Gaelic, the term skean =knife and dubh, has often been taken to mean black. However in its more common simile, it actually means 'dark' or more directly, hidden. Therefore it is a 'hidden' knife. By the same token, in Gaelic, the famed "Black Watch" regiment actually began as a covert 'undercover' unit used by the British to patrol Highland regions and maintain control. Therefore the eventual sobriquet for the regiment when formalized was not for black or somber toned apparel but the 'hidden' purpose of its formation. In my own surname, in Gaelic, MacDhubghaill, means, son of the 'dark' foreigner, therefore unclear origins or so family lore goes . Norman.....we crossed posts!!!! I remain curious on the 'jimping' or notching along the blade at the back, often I think on dirks as well. I think this was for the utility purposes in many cases....scaling fish?

16th October 2016, 08:18 PM	#9
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,632	Hi Jim, Hope you are well these days and still travelling. On the subject of the Black Watch, my mother always called the distinctive Black Watch tartan "A Government Tartan" and always with sarcasm and disdain in her voice. I'm not sure exactly why as on her side of the family we were/are Lowland Scots/Ulster Irish and therefore probably on the side of the Govt., but possibly not always with the expected degree of commitment. Way back the regiment, I believe, was used to implement Govt policy and naturally this would have given rise to a certain dislike and I presume this dislike was passed down the generations. My Regards, Norman.