Origins of the Mandinka saber

Jim McDougall · 11th October 2016, 07:29 PM

Thanks Iain! That is excellent insight, and agree that the Darfur scabbards seem invariably to have that flare. I always think of Burton (1884, p.165) and the line drawing and text of the 'Danakil' sword, which is clearly a kaskara. Here here illustrates the sword tip sectioned away from the hilt, with a flared blade tip. He notes in the text as well that the blade of the 'Danakil' sword widens at the tip.
This is presumably an assumption on his part based on superficially observing kaskara in scabbard, which had a flared tip. The Danakil were situated in Ethiopian areas north of Somalia, thus beyond Sudan in sense and of course further from Darfur.

The note on Meroe and some ancient tradition were recalled from some study on this topic many years back and from a Sudanese archaeologist who held that theory on the 'flare'. I do not have the notes at this time but it was suggested that a sword in an early iconographic source of a king of Meroe with sword and scabbard with that feature. As always, this depiction may have been artistic license or any number of factors, but it was worth noting,

As you know, I very much have admired the anthropological work you have done on the tribal and cultural aspects of these regions which have added full dimension to our understanding of these weapons. Very well made point on the directional aspects of these trade routes, and interesting to view possible diffusions accordingly. I do believe however that materials et al, could well have exchanged in the centers in these routes, and followed other routes which are shown moving laterally.

On the other thread with same basic topic on the west African swords, it does seem the cuboid pommel of the Omani swords becomes present on a good number of varying types as the one with roundels on hilt . Here again I wonder if that influence might have been brought in to these areas from the Omani weapons, from those traders eastward.

We know that there no restrictions to how things moved on trade caravan routes, unless for tribal territorial issues/warfare or colonial intervention in the 19th c.

I noticed on some examples of the Mandinka sabres, the flared scabbard is demonstrably larger and more exaggerated. Might this be a case of such embellishment having to do with status etc. as with the takoubas with enormously wide blades?

Iain · 11th October 2016, 09:48 PM

Hi Jim,

I think the major problem with this idea is that we don't have any signs of extensive contact with Omani traders to justify this idea.

Is a square pommel numb really all that much of an Omani idea? I am not sure personally it is. On these swords from Mande speaking peoples we see domed finials, square, etc. I am not sure any of these shapes are really so unique (rather, fairly universal!) to require much of an explanation.

There of course is a striking visual similarity between the two forms, but they are so basic, simple wrapped handles and a small finial/pommel, that I am not sure much more can be drawn from it given the breadth of a continent in between the two forms and not much of a trail of diffusion in the dividing territory.

Regarding the flared scabbard, I by no means meant to indicate this is necessarily a Darfur feature, but rather wanted to point out we see it in a variety of areas that for me dissipate the theory that this is a particularly eastern or western Sudanese feature. Rather it seems to be a fairly generalized artistic element.

Given the strong historical connections of the kaskara to Mamluk Egypt it would be interesting to compare medieval Mamluk straight sword scabbards, but sadly none survive I am aware of.

Kubur · 12th October 2016, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Jim,

I think the major problem with this idea is that we don't have any signs of extensive contact with Omani traders to justify this idea.

Given the strong historical connections of the kaskara to Mamluk Egypt it would be interesting to compare medieval Mamluk straight sword scabbards, but sadly none survive I am aware of.

It's exactly what I think, thanks Iain. These swords have a common ancestor, maybe Mamluk, maybe older... And yes we don't have the scabbards...

Iain · 12th October 2016, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

It's exactly what I think, thanks Iain. These swords have a common ancestor, maybe Mamluk, maybe older... And yes we don't have the scabbards...

This isn't to say that there can't be an Omani connection, but, I think there isn't a preponderance of evidence to suggest this is the case beyond a superficial visual similarity.

However, that's not a bad starting point and is much the same as where I started years ago with takouba. The trick is then to support that with as much evidence as possible to show how the visual similarities could have come about. At the moment I would be the first to say there is a visual similarity, but I remain unconvinced as to why.

The Mamluk comment was made only in regard to kaskara, where there is a demonstrable link.

11th October 2016, 07:29 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,610	Thanks Iain! That is excellent insight, and agree that the Darfur scabbards seem invariably to have that flare. I always think of Burton (1884, p.165) and the line drawing and text of the 'Danakil' sword, which is clearly a kaskara. Here here illustrates the sword tip sectioned away from the hilt, with a flared blade tip. He notes in the text as well that the blade of the 'Danakil' sword widens at the tip. This is presumably an assumption on his part based on superficially observing kaskara in scabbard, which had a flared tip. The Danakil were situated in Ethiopian areas north of Somalia, thus beyond Sudan in sense and of course further from Darfur. The note on Meroe and some ancient tradition were recalled from some study on this topic many years back and from a Sudanese archaeologist who held that theory on the 'flare'. I do not have the notes at this time but it was suggested that a sword in an early iconographic source of a king of Meroe with sword and scabbard with that feature. As always, this depiction may have been artistic license or any number of factors, but it was worth noting, As you know, I very much have admired the anthropological work you have done on the tribal and cultural aspects of these regions which have added full dimension to our understanding of these weapons. Very well made point on the directional aspects of these trade routes, and interesting to view possible diffusions accordingly. I do believe however that materials et al, could well have exchanged in the centers in these routes, and followed other routes which are shown moving laterally. On the other thread with same basic topic on the west African swords, it does seem the cuboid pommel of the Omani swords becomes present on a good number of varying types as the one with roundels on hilt . Here again I wonder if that influence might have been brought in to these areas from the Omani weapons, from those traders eastward. We know that there no restrictions to how things moved on trade caravan routes, unless for tribal territorial issues/warfare or colonial intervention in the 19th c. I noticed on some examples of the Mandinka sabres, the flared scabbard is demonstrably larger and more exaggerated. Might this be a case of such embellishment having to do with status etc. as with the takoubas with enormously wide blades?

11th October 2016, 09:48 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Hi Jim, I think the major problem with this idea is that we don't have any signs of extensive contact with Omani traders to justify this idea. Is a square pommel numb really all that much of an Omani idea? I am not sure personally it is. On these swords from Mande speaking peoples we see domed finials, square, etc. I am not sure any of these shapes are really so unique (rather, fairly universal!) to require much of an explanation. There of course is a striking visual similarity between the two forms, but they are so basic, simple wrapped handles and a small finial/pommel, that I am not sure much more can be drawn from it given the breadth of a continent in between the two forms and not much of a trail of diffusion in the dividing territory. Regarding the flared scabbard, I by no means meant to indicate this is necessarily a Darfur feature, but rather wanted to point out we see it in a variety of areas that for me dissipate the theory that this is a particularly eastern or western Sudanese feature. Rather it seems to be a fairly generalized artistic element. Given the strong historical connections of the kaskara to Mamluk Egypt it would be interesting to compare medieval Mamluk straight sword scabbards, but sadly none survive I am aware of.