Origins of the Mandinka saber

Iain · 10th October 2016, 05:57 PM

Just a few thoughts, the point about the handles of these weapons and the similarity to Arab forms is the most easy to dismiss I think. Wrapping a blade with a bit of leather and adding a pommel is not something I think that requires much of an outside influence.

The more interesting element I think is the flared scabbard. Jim of course makes a good point about the relative rarity of this feature and the fact that the intermediate takouba form which geographically comes between the kaskara and these sabres emphatically does not have this feature.

However, not all kaskara have a flared tip, not all of these saber scabbards have a flared tip.

If I could perhaps suggest a direction of research, both the flared scabbards of the Sudan and the sabers under discussion originate with peoples who migrated to the areas they currently occupy. Looking for a convergent period of contact might explain this feature far better than (in my opinion) and a shared heritage than influence from Omani traders.

Jim McDougall · 10th October 2016, 09:34 PM

Hi Iain,
Really glad to have you in on this!! As admitted, these are pretty much free association comparisons, however they must be considered no matter how tenuous or simply too obvious as factors in these equations. The presence of Arab trade, whether maritime or via caravans and trade networks throughout Africa was so much more complex than imagined, and as you know, it seems more is discovered al the time.

As you note, creation of a handle on a blade is pretty much an obvious solution for holding the thing without any particular artistic or creative skill. Here again though, the almost blatant simplicity and character of such a hilt seems to have avoided being adopted by most tribal cultures across the Sahelian and Sudanese areas. The simple flattened cylinder hilt of Oman, as the Arabian entity we are considering, seems to have arisen somewhere in Africa as it certainly does not seem to have suddenly appeared in Oman or other Arabian regions. We might be tempted to consider the open hilt and guardless sabres of various Bedouin tribes in Palestinian regions, and how these might have transmitted into Egypt-Sudan-Sahara, but there again we have a tenuous situation. The trade route 'syndrome' seems more viable.

The idea of seeking the flared scabbard tip from migrating peoples and symbolism from these transmitted is of course well placed. As I noted, it seems that Merotic ancestry may be possible with whatever symbolic character it had, and we know that migrations westward from Nilotic regions were the case in early times.
But again, why the dramatic chronological gap, with no evidence of this feature regionally anywhere else but Sudan?

The 'laws of variation' of course make allowance for the fact that all kaskara do not have the flared feature on scabbards, but how often do we see exceptions? How often are the Manding scabbards different? It is the preponderance of these features in these dual, seemingly disconnected instances that give us cause to wonder on what connection there might be. I still think the trade conduit I suggested may be viable, but of course remain open to other possibilities as you note. There are few who know these tribal cultures as you do with the years of tenacious study, but I simply want to test out these possibilities.

All the best
Jim

Iain · 11th October 2016, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The idea of seeking the flared scabbard tip from migrating peoples and symbolism from these transmitted is of course well placed. As I noted, it seems that Merotic ancestry may be possible with whatever symbolic character it had, and we know that migrations westward from Nilotic regions were the case in early times.
But again, why the dramatic chronological gap, with no evidence of this feature regionally anywhere else but Sudan?

Hi Jim,

Actually I was thinking more along the lines that almost all kaskara I've seen from Darfur are flared and the Fur migrated to the area from from the south and through Chad. Kaskara in Chad also seem to favor the flare. So less of a Merotic thing and more of a Chad basin thing potentially.

Despite the relatively interconnected nature of trade in the region, I think its also important to keep in mind that the trade in the Hausa and west African regions was more strongly tied to north African Arab areas than east Africa. Most of the routes ran north south, not east west.

However, I do think there's a connection in the scabbard form somehow. But I am not convinced just yet by any theory I've heard as to how that came about.

Jim McDougall · 11th October 2016, 07:29 PM

Thanks Iain! That is excellent insight, and agree that the Darfur scabbards seem invariably to have that flare. I always think of Burton (1884, p.165) and the line drawing and text of the 'Danakil' sword, which is clearly a kaskara. Here here illustrates the sword tip sectioned away from the hilt, with a flared blade tip. He notes in the text as well that the blade of the 'Danakil' sword widens at the tip.
This is presumably an assumption on his part based on superficially observing kaskara in scabbard, which had a flared tip. The Danakil were situated in Ethiopian areas north of Somalia, thus beyond Sudan in sense and of course further from Darfur.

The note on Meroe and some ancient tradition were recalled from some study on this topic many years back and from a Sudanese archaeologist who held that theory on the 'flare'. I do not have the notes at this time but it was suggested that a sword in an early iconographic source of a king of Meroe with sword and scabbard with that feature. As always, this depiction may have been artistic license or any number of factors, but it was worth noting,

As you know, I very much have admired the anthropological work you have done on the tribal and cultural aspects of these regions which have added full dimension to our understanding of these weapons. Very well made point on the directional aspects of these trade routes, and interesting to view possible diffusions accordingly. I do believe however that materials et al, could well have exchanged in the centers in these routes, and followed other routes which are shown moving laterally.

On the other thread with same basic topic on the west African swords, it does seem the cuboid pommel of the Omani swords becomes present on a good number of varying types as the one with roundels on hilt . Here again I wonder if that influence might have been brought in to these areas from the Omani weapons, from those traders eastward.

We know that there no restrictions to how things moved on trade caravan routes, unless for tribal territorial issues/warfare or colonial intervention in the 19th c.

I noticed on some examples of the Mandinka sabres, the flared scabbard is demonstrably larger and more exaggerated. Might this be a case of such embellishment having to do with status etc. as with the takoubas with enormously wide blades?

Iain · 11th October 2016, 09:48 PM

Hi Jim,

I think the major problem with this idea is that we don't have any signs of extensive contact with Omani traders to justify this idea.

Is a square pommel numb really all that much of an Omani idea? I am not sure personally it is. On these swords from Mande speaking peoples we see domed finials, square, etc. I am not sure any of these shapes are really so unique (rather, fairly universal!) to require much of an explanation.

There of course is a striking visual similarity between the two forms, but they are so basic, simple wrapped handles and a small finial/pommel, that I am not sure much more can be drawn from it given the breadth of a continent in between the two forms and not much of a trail of diffusion in the dividing territory.

Regarding the flared scabbard, I by no means meant to indicate this is necessarily a Darfur feature, but rather wanted to point out we see it in a variety of areas that for me dissipate the theory that this is a particularly eastern or western Sudanese feature. Rather it seems to be a fairly generalized artistic element.

Given the strong historical connections of the kaskara to Mamluk Egypt it would be interesting to compare medieval Mamluk straight sword scabbards, but sadly none survive I am aware of.

Kubur · 12th October 2016, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Jim,

I think the major problem with this idea is that we don't have any signs of extensive contact with Omani traders to justify this idea.

Given the strong historical connections of the kaskara to Mamluk Egypt it would be interesting to compare medieval Mamluk straight sword scabbards, but sadly none survive I am aware of.

It's exactly what I think, thanks Iain. These swords have a common ancestor, maybe Mamluk, maybe older... And yes we don't have the scabbards...

Iain · 12th October 2016, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

It's exactly what I think, thanks Iain. These swords have a common ancestor, maybe Mamluk, maybe older... And yes we don't have the scabbards...

This isn't to say that there can't be an Omani connection, but, I think there isn't a preponderance of evidence to suggest this is the case beyond a superficial visual similarity.

However, that's not a bad starting point and is much the same as where I started years ago with takouba. The trick is then to support that with as much evidence as possible to show how the visual similarities could have come about. At the moment I would be the first to say there is a visual similarity, but I remain unconvinced as to why.

The Mamluk comment was made only in regard to kaskara, where there is a demonstrable link.

CharlesS · 10th October 2016, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

However, not all kaskara have a flared tip, not all of these saber scabbards have a flared tip.

Often the straight swords I have seen from this region with the same type hilts, do not have a scabbard with a flared tip, even though so much else about the scabbard is the same.

Iain · 11th October 2016, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Often the straight swords I have seen from this region with the same type hilts, do not have a scabbard with a flared tip, even though so much else about the scabbard is the same.

Correct, although I've seen a few flared as well.

On the flip side I've seen several curved examples also lacking the flair. Doesn't seem to be a hard rule for any particular configuration.

10th October 2016, 05:57 PM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Just a few thoughts, the point about the handles of these weapons and the similarity to Arab forms is the most easy to dismiss I think. Wrapping a blade with a bit of leather and adding a pommel is not something I think that requires much of an outside influence. The more interesting element I think is the flared scabbard. Jim of course makes a good point about the relative rarity of this feature and the fact that the intermediate takouba form which geographically comes between the kaskara and these sabres emphatically does not have this feature. However, not all kaskara have a flared tip, not all of these saber scabbards have a flared tip. If I could perhaps suggest a direction of research, both the flared scabbards of the Sudan and the sabers under discussion originate with peoples who migrated to the areas they currently occupy. Looking for a convergent period of contact might explain this feature far better than (in my opinion) and a shared heritage than influence from Omani traders.

10th October 2016, 09:34 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,610	Hi Iain, Really glad to have you in on this!! As admitted, these are pretty much free association comparisons, however they must be considered no matter how tenuous or simply too obvious as factors in these equations. The presence of Arab trade, whether maritime or via caravans and trade networks throughout Africa was so much more complex than imagined, and as you know, it seems more is discovered al the time. As you note, creation of a handle on a blade is pretty much an obvious solution for holding the thing without any particular artistic or creative skill. Here again though, the almost blatant simplicity and character of such a hilt seems to have avoided being adopted by most tribal cultures across the Sahelian and Sudanese areas. The simple flattened cylinder hilt of Oman, as the Arabian entity we are considering, seems to have arisen somewhere in Africa as it certainly does not seem to have suddenly appeared in Oman or other Arabian regions. We might be tempted to consider the open hilt and guardless sabres of various Bedouin tribes in Palestinian regions, and how these might have transmitted into Egypt-Sudan-Sahara, but there again we have a tenuous situation. The trade route 'syndrome' seems more viable. The idea of seeking the flared scabbard tip from migrating peoples and symbolism from these transmitted is of course well placed. As I noted, it seems that Merotic ancestry may be possible with whatever symbolic character it had, and we know that migrations westward from Nilotic regions were the case in early times. But again, why the dramatic chronological gap, with no evidence of this feature regionally anywhere else but Sudan? The 'laws of variation' of course make allowance for the fact that all kaskara do not have the flared feature on scabbards, but how often do we see exceptions? How often are the Manding scabbards different? It is the preponderance of these features in these dual, seemingly disconnected instances that give us cause to wonder on what connection there might be. I still think the trade conduit I suggested may be viable, but of course remain open to other possibilities as you note. There are few who know these tribal cultures as you do with the years of tenacious study, but I simply want to test out these possibilities. All the best Jim

11th October 2016, 07:29 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,610	Thanks Iain! That is excellent insight, and agree that the Darfur scabbards seem invariably to have that flare. I always think of Burton (1884, p.165) and the line drawing and text of the 'Danakil' sword, which is clearly a kaskara. Here here illustrates the sword tip sectioned away from the hilt, with a flared blade tip. He notes in the text as well that the blade of the 'Danakil' sword widens at the tip. This is presumably an assumption on his part based on superficially observing kaskara in scabbard, which had a flared tip. The Danakil were situated in Ethiopian areas north of Somalia, thus beyond Sudan in sense and of course further from Darfur. The note on Meroe and some ancient tradition were recalled from some study on this topic many years back and from a Sudanese archaeologist who held that theory on the 'flare'. I do not have the notes at this time but it was suggested that a sword in an early iconographic source of a king of Meroe with sword and scabbard with that feature. As always, this depiction may have been artistic license or any number of factors, but it was worth noting, As you know, I very much have admired the anthropological work you have done on the tribal and cultural aspects of these regions which have added full dimension to our understanding of these weapons. Very well made point on the directional aspects of these trade routes, and interesting to view possible diffusions accordingly. I do believe however that materials et al, could well have exchanged in the centers in these routes, and followed other routes which are shown moving laterally. On the other thread with same basic topic on the west African swords, it does seem the cuboid pommel of the Omani swords becomes present on a good number of varying types as the one with roundels on hilt . Here again I wonder if that influence might have been brought in to these areas from the Omani weapons, from those traders eastward. We know that there no restrictions to how things moved on trade caravan routes, unless for tribal territorial issues/warfare or colonial intervention in the 19th c. I noticed on some examples of the Mandinka sabres, the flared scabbard is demonstrably larger and more exaggerated. Might this be a case of such embellishment having to do with status etc. as with the takoubas with enormously wide blades?

11th October 2016, 09:48 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Hi Jim, I think the major problem with this idea is that we don't have any signs of extensive contact with Omani traders to justify this idea. Is a square pommel numb really all that much of an Omani idea? I am not sure personally it is. On these swords from Mande speaking peoples we see domed finials, square, etc. I am not sure any of these shapes are really so unique (rather, fairly universal!) to require much of an explanation. There of course is a striking visual similarity between the two forms, but they are so basic, simple wrapped handles and a small finial/pommel, that I am not sure much more can be drawn from it given the breadth of a continent in between the two forms and not much of a trail of diffusion in the dividing territory. Regarding the flared scabbard, I by no means meant to indicate this is necessarily a Darfur feature, but rather wanted to point out we see it in a variety of areas that for me dissipate the theory that this is a particularly eastern or western Sudanese feature. Rather it seems to be a fairly generalized artistic element. Given the strong historical connections of the kaskara to Mamluk Egypt it would be interesting to compare medieval Mamluk straight sword scabbards, but sadly none survive I am aware of.