My Java keris

Sajen · 7th October 2016, 02:09 PM

Dear Johan,

I have attached a picture from a keris in front side view, it's the show side.
Normally is a pendok only put-on over the wooden gandar. So you need only to reverse the pendok when possible. Pendoks can be engraved or punched (from front or the back). I haven't noticed until now that the pendok is decorated!

You should provide better and bigger pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

Jean · 7th October 2016, 04:35 PM

Hello Johan,
Thank you for the pic of the top part of the engraved pendok. It is of common quality, probably not from the North Coast, and if you reverse it as it should be, there will be some exposed wood at the top of the gandar on one side as the top of the pendok is not symmetrical, so you will have to file it. Considering the quality and condition of the pendok (bumps), I would try to replace it if I were you....
Regards
Edit: Sorry, I missed your post#21 so I understand the situation but it does not significantly change my reaction.

A. G. Maisey · 7th October 2016, 10:41 PM

Johan, we really do need full length photos, front and back, before we can make any worthwhile comment on this pendok.

As has already been said, it is probably incorrect for this wrongko, in fact from what little I can see, it looks like it might be a Jogja pendok.

However, if it is incorrect it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to get hold of a correct pendok.

Could you please let us see full length, front and back pics of the pendok?

Johan van Zyl · 8th October 2016, 12:31 PM

Hi guys, I'm trying to post good additional pics....Having listened carefully to your comments, I have decided to detach the pendok, which fortunately came off allright. See pics, made larger as you recommended....

Sajen · 8th October 2016, 06:23 PM

The pendok isn't from Yogya IMVHO but from Solo or Banyumas, I am unsure but Alan will know exactly. But it's cut in up like a Yogya pendok to fit this scabbard. Like Alan has pointed out already it will be more as difficult to find the correct pendok for this keris in question so I would let it with this keris. But I would try to get out the dents, you can work for this a simple wooden tool in form of a slim massive gandar or borrow from your wife a wooden spoon with long handle. And like Jean already write you will need to fit it new in up.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 8th October 2016, 09:19 PM

Yes, not Jogja.

As Detlef says, maybe Solo, maybe Banyumas, or maybe just generic Central Jawa.

Again, as detlef has advised, use something long enough and rounded to work out the dents from the inside. The proper tool for this is a sanglon, which is bronze or brass in the form of a gandar and is what is mostly used to form the gandar when it is being made. A substitute for this tool is just anything that will do the job without breaking. A piece of oval shaped hardwood works quite well.

Johan van Zyl · 10th October 2016, 09:49 AM

Gentlemen, I am truly honoured to have come so far with this thread, thanks to your willingness to supply your valued comments to my questions! I will definitely follow your advice.
I know this thread can't go on forever (!) so I would now ask you to bear with me one more time. This is the final aspect of my Javanese keris, the blade. Afterwards I will retire from this thread and devote much time to digest all your information you have kindly given me.

1 Taking everything you have said into account, I now believe this keris blade was made between 1800 and 1900. Would that be a fair guess?

2 What would the significance/meaning be of the sogokan on the sorsoran of my keris blade? (I have actually read somewhere that some call them blood grooves!)

3 What kind of hardened tool could the empus have used to chisel these magnificent features of the ricikan into the metal of the sorsoran? Surely, a job like this requires high quality tool steel! Was it available in those olden days?

4 I understand the ron dha to be only one single, specific indentation on the greneng. Would I be correct?

5 You have considereed the pamor of my keris to be adeg. Is that pattern only produced by twisting, or might there be another method of creating adeg?

6 Lastly, I have read that the two different "sides" of the sorsoran are called "front" and "rear", but are there not Javanese names that we call those "sides", the kembang kacang side and the pointed greneng side?

THANK YOU!
Johan

7th October 2016, 02:09 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	Dear Johan, I have attached a picture from a keris in front side view, it's the show side. Normally is a pendok only put-on over the wooden gandar. So you need only to reverse the pendok when possible. Pendoks can be engraved or punched (from front or the back). I haven't noticed until now that the pendok is decorated! You should provide better and bigger pictures. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

8th October 2016, 12:31 PM	#4
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Hi guys, I'm trying to post good additional pics....Having listened carefully to your comments, I have decided to detach the pendok, which fortunately came off allright. See pics, made larger as you recommended.... Attached Images

7th October 2016, 04:35 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Johan, Thank you for the pic of the top part of the engraved pendok. It is of common quality, probably not from the North Coast, and if you reverse it as it should be, there will be some exposed wood at the top of the gandar on one side as the top of the pendok is not symmetrical, so you will have to file it. Considering the quality and condition of the pendok (bumps), I would try to replace it if I were you.... Regards Edit: Sorry, I missed your post#21 so I understand the situation but it does not significantly change my reaction. Last edited by Jean; 7th October 2016 at 08:45 PM.

7th October 2016, 10:41 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Johan, we really do need full length photos, front and back, before we can make any worthwhile comment on this pendok. As has already been said, it is probably incorrect for this wrongko, in fact from what little I can see, it looks like it might be a Jogja pendok. However, if it is incorrect it might be somewhere between difficult and impossible to get hold of a correct pendok. Could you please let us see full length, front and back pics of the pendok?

8th October 2016, 06:23 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,272	The pendok isn't from Yogya IMVHO but from Solo or Banyumas, I am unsure but Alan will know exactly. But it's cut in up like a Yogya pendok to fit this scabbard. Like Alan has pointed out already it will be more as difficult to find the correct pendok for this keris in question so I would let it with this keris. But I would try to get out the dents, you can work for this a simple wooden tool in form of a slim massive gandar or borrow from your wife a wooden spoon with long handle. And like Jean already write you will need to fit it new in up. Regards, Detlef

8th October 2016, 09:19 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Yes, not Jogja. As Detlef says, maybe Solo, maybe Banyumas, or maybe just generic Central Jawa. Again, as detlef has advised, use something long enough and rounded to work out the dents from the inside. The proper tool for this is a sanglon, which is bronze or brass in the form of a gandar and is what is mostly used to form the gandar when it is being made. A substitute for this tool is just anything that will do the job without breaking. A piece of oval shaped hardwood works quite well.

10th October 2016, 09:49 AM	#7
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Gentlemen, I am truly honoured to have come so far with this thread, thanks to your willingness to supply your valued comments to my questions! I will definitely follow your advice. I know this thread can't go on forever (!) so I would now ask you to bear with me one more time. This is the final aspect of my Javanese keris, the blade. Afterwards I will retire from this thread and devote much time to digest all your information you have kindly given me. 1 Taking everything you have said into account, I now believe this keris blade was made between 1800 and 1900. Would that be a fair guess? 2 What would the significance/meaning be of the sogokan on the sorsoran of my keris blade? (I have actually read somewhere that some call them blood grooves!) 3 What kind of hardened tool could the empus have used to chisel these magnificent features of the ricikan into the metal of the sorsoran? Surely, a job like this requires high quality tool steel! Was it available in those olden days? 4 I understand the ron dha to be only one single, specific indentation on the greneng. Would I be correct? 5 You have considereed the pamor of my keris to be adeg. Is that pattern only produced by twisting, or might there be another method of creating adeg? 6 Lastly, I have read that the two different "sides" of the sorsoran are called "front" and "rear", but are there not Javanese names that we call those "sides", the kembang kacang side and the pointed greneng side? THANK YOU! Johan