WOODEN POWDER FLASK for COMMENT and ID

kahnjar1 · 6th September 2016, 08:33 PM

I have recently acquired this nice and unusual wooden powder flask with bone inlays. It was identified as Moroccan but it has since been suggested that it could be Algerian. As a matter of interest there is another one of similar shape and size but without any inlays, on a certain website. I can not show pics of this one as it is still "live", but this one is described as Turkish.
Now, it is likely that the one shown here, COULD be described as "Ottoman", due to the expanse of the Ottoman Empire, but I am interested to find out WHERE it comes from.
Stu

kahnjar1 · 8th September 2016, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I have recently acquired this nice and unusual wooden powder flask with bone inlays. It was identified as Moroccan but it has since been suggested that it could be Algerian. As a matter of interest there is another one of similar shape and size but without any inlays, on a certain website. I can not show pics of this one as it is still "live", but this one is described as Turkish.
Now, it is likely that the one shown here, COULD be described as "Ottoman", due to the expanse of the Ottoman Empire, but I am interested to find out WHERE it comes from.
Stu

Does anybody have any comments/ideas about this flask?

colin henshaw · 8th September 2016, 09:19 PM

Not my area really, but the bone inlay reminds me of the decoration to be found on the wooden stocks of some Moroccan guns...

rickystl · 9th September 2016, 01:22 AM

I'm the guilty one that suggested to Stu that it might be Algerain (?). LOL

Hi Stu.

Well, I do believe it is either Moroccan or Algerian. Nice pics of the flask here. It actually displays really well. It looks like it was made in three pieces. Agreed ?

Rick

ward · 9th September 2016, 02:27 AM

Look at morocco. The wood looks like Thuya wood from around Essaouira

kahnjar1 · 9th September 2016, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

I'm the guilty one that suggested to Stu that it might be Algerain (?). LOL

Hi Stu.

Well, I do believe it is either Moroccan or Algerian. Nice pics of the flask here. It actually displays really well. It looks like it was made in three pieces. Agreed ?

Rick

Nothing to be guilty about Rick. Comment is comment and that's what I am after. I agree 3 parts by the look of it. Nicely fitted as well.
Have to say I am rather surprised at the lack of replies, as judging by other threads there are plenty of flask collectors here!
Stu

Oliver Pinchot · 9th September 2016, 06:37 AM

It's Moroccan, latter 19th century.

kahnjar1 · 9th September 2016, 07:20 AM

Thanks Gentlemen. Moroccan it is.
Can someone tell me how it would have been suspended to facilitate easy use? The slot suggests a belt, but if on a belt it would be almost impossible to use to charge either a pan or a muzzle.
Stu

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 9th September 2016, 01:27 PM

More below...Some conjecture suggests that these are Ottoman or Moroccan but they could easily be both ...spoils of war perhaps... I can imagine the flask being plain in the hands of the original Ottoman owner but later hand carved by the new Moroccan owners in the typical decorative style of wood carving of North African form.

The plain flask below said to be Ottoman whilst the carved Flask described as Moroccan.

kahnjar1 · 9th September 2016, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

More below...Some conjecture suggests that these are Ottoman or Moroccan but they could easily be both ...spoils of war perhaps... I can imagine the flask being plain in the hands of the original Ottoman owner but later hand carved by the new Moroccan owners in the typical decorative style of wood carving of North African form.

The plain flask below said to be Ottoman whilst the carved Flask described as Moroccan.

Salaams Ibrahiim,
Do you know how these flasks were carried? The "slot" suggests a belt but I would have thought that would restrict ease of use.......
Your small pic shows a cord, (maybe not original?) but if that is the correct way of suspending the flask then why is there not just a hole or a ring to take the cord?
Stu

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th September 2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams Ibrahiim,
Do you know how these flasks were carried? The "slot" suggests a belt but I would have thought that would restrict ease of use.......
Your small pic shows a cord, (maybe not original?) but if that is the correct way of suspending the flask then why is there not just a hole or a ring to take the cord?
Stu

Its a puzzle... I don't know. Oliver Help !!!

Oliver Pinchot · 10th September 2016, 04:14 PM

Stu is close; the slot is intended for a strap, rather than a belt.
Part of the research I did as a graduate student involved field-testing the processes involved in suspending various weapons and accoutrements. Flasks and horns, from virtually every culture, are much more comfortable to carry for an extended period (on foot or on horseback,) on a leather or flat woven strap or tape. Woven cords with a round cross-section, such as those on which kummiyahs are usually slung, become uncomfortable after a surprisingly short period. The mountaineer peoples of the Caucasus seem to have evolved the best suspension systems for any weapon; these involved a series of narrow leather straps, usually adjustable by means of buckles.

This flask is designed ergonomically. It conforms well to the body (i.e. it doesn't catch on things when slung) and can be used with a minimum of effort, thanks to the angled spout. The form is characteristically Moroccan; Ward's observation that this type of wood is common to Essaouira supports this.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th September 2016, 05:09 PM

The problem with Thuya is...It is the national tree of Malta however, it grows in the foothills of the Atlass Mountains thus I agree on the potential of this being a Moroccan item...I couldn't find a picture of this flask on the waist but I am sure one will materialize...Thanks Oliver great reply... Ibrahiim

Kubur · 10th September 2016, 06:35 PM

They used also argan tree. It was suspended as Oliver described. This shape was mainly used on the saddle and of course its Moroccan.
And this one is old...
Best,
Kubur

rickystl · 11th September 2016, 03:15 PM

Excellent both Oliver and Kubur. The obvious design for a leather strap combined with "saddle" attachment makes even more sense. Maybe a few smaller leather straps, twisted together in somewhat of a figure-8 form (?). But makes sense.

Rick

6th September 2016, 08:33 PM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	WOODEN POWDER FLASK for COMMENT and ID I have recently acquired this nice and unusual wooden powder flask with bone inlays. It was identified as Moroccan but it has since been suggested that it could be Algerian. As a matter of interest there is another one of similar shape and size but without any inlays, on a certain website. I can not show pics of this one as it is still "live", but this one is described as Turkish. Now, it is likely that the one shown here, COULD be described as "Ottoman", due to the expanse of the Ottoman Empire, but I am interested to find out WHERE it comes from. Stu Attached Images

9th September 2016, 02:27 AM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	powder flask Look at morocco. The wood looks like Thuya wood from around Essaouira

9th September 2016, 01:27 PM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	More below...Some conjecture suggests that these are Ottoman or Moroccan but they could easily be both ...spoils of war perhaps... I can imagine the flask being plain in the hands of the original Ottoman owner but later hand carved by the new Moroccan owners in the typical decorative style of wood carving of North African form. The plain flask below said to be Ottoman whilst the carved Flask described as Moroccan. Attached Images

8th September 2016, 09:19 PM	#3
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Not my area really, but the bone inlay reminds me of the decoration to be found on the wooden stocks of some Moroccan guns...

9th September 2016, 01:22 AM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	I'm the guilty one that suggested to Stu that it might be Algerain (?). LOL Hi Stu. Well, I do believe it is either Moroccan or Algerian. Nice pics of the flask here. It actually displays really well. It looks like it was made in three pieces. Agreed ? Rick

9th September 2016, 06:37 AM	#7
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 469	It's Moroccan, latter 19th century.

9th September 2016, 07:20 AM	#8
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	Thanks Gentlemen. Moroccan it is. Can someone tell me how it would have been suspended to facilitate easy use? The slot suggests a belt, but if on a belt it would be almost impossible to use to charge either a pan or a muzzle. Stu

10th September 2016, 04:14 PM	#12
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 469	Stu is close; the slot is intended for a strap, rather than a belt. Part of the research I did as a graduate student involved field-testing the processes involved in suspending various weapons and accoutrements. Flasks and horns, from virtually every culture, are much more comfortable to carry for an extended period (on foot or on horseback,) on a leather or flat woven strap or tape. Woven cords with a round cross-section, such as those on which kummiyahs are usually slung, become uncomfortable after a surprisingly short period. The mountaineer peoples of the Caucasus seem to have evolved the best suspension systems for any weapon; these involved a series of narrow leather straps, usually adjustable by means of buckles. This flask is designed ergonomically. It conforms well to the body (i.e. it doesn't catch on things when slung) and can be used with a minimum of effort, thanks to the angled spout. The form is characteristically Moroccan; Ward's observation that this type of wood is common to Essaouira supports this.

10th September 2016, 05:09 PM	#13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	The problem with Thuya is...It is the national tree of Malta however, it grows in the foothills of the Atlass Mountains thus I agree on the potential of this being a Moroccan item...I couldn't find a picture of this flask on the waist but I am sure one will materialize...Thanks Oliver great reply... Ibrahiim

10th September 2016, 06:35 PM	#14
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	They used also argan tree. It was suspended as Oliver described. This shape was mainly used on the saddle and of course its Moroccan. And this one is old... Best, Kubur

11th September 2016, 03:15 PM	#15
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Excellent both Oliver and Kubur. The obvious design for a leather strap combined with "saddle" attachment makes even more sense. Maybe a few smaller leather straps, twisted together in somewhat of a figure-8 form (?). But makes sense. Rick