A Lovely Indonesian Parang With An Amazing Pedang Lurus Style Hilt

CharlesS · 28th August 2016, 11:52 PM

Great contribution Alan. The "afterthought" goes a long ways towards explaining the difference in terms. One almost seems like the action while the other does the action.

A. G. Maisey · 29th August 2016, 02:59 AM

Not quite Charles.

To cut with a pedang is "medhang".

To chop is "marang", and the chopping can be with a knife or other chopper, but "marang" comes from "parang", thus a parang is a chopper, but a knife or sword can be a parang, depending on how it is used, and a parang can be a sword (pedang) depending on how it is used.

So if you "medhang" with a parang, during the course of that action, the parang becomes a pedang.

In Javanese a golok can be a dagger, in BI it is a something like a machete, and in current common usage I believe most Javanese would call a short dagger that can be used for chopping, a golok.

To slash with a klewang is "nglewang".

In Jawa/Bali/Madura it is not just a matter of looking up the form and name in book, or going to a dictionary and looking for the equivalent of sword. To use a language, and this includes words from a language we need to be able to think as the native speakers of that language think.

I've gone on record previously about the name game, so I will not now say any more, except that this "correct name " thing is not as easy as it might appear, at least not with weapons from Indonesia.

ariel · 29th August 2016, 04:01 AM

It is very funny: read post #152 at the Shashka topic.
Virtually identical info regarding North Caucasian languages and the Western propensity to mislabel Eastern weapons because of their ignorance of local linguistical nuances:-)))

Sajen · 29th August 2016, 11:36 AM

Beautiful pedang!

Battara · 29th August 2016, 08:36 PM

Alan, "parang" in Bahasa Indonesian, which is a cutting implement, may be related to the word "parang" in a sister language, Tagalog, which means "field".

The connection of cutting a field with a cutting implement. I find etymology fascinating.

A. G. Maisey · 30th August 2016, 12:23 AM

Maybe, but the same word "parang" has two entirely separate meanings in Javanese:-

a chopper, cleaver or knife

a cliff.

It is the name of a well known batik motif, where the motif supposedly represents a ruined cliff:- "parang rusak".

A lot of languages all across SE Asia have similarities, there is a good reference chart in Raffles that sets out in matrixical form words from various languages, you can read across the page and see the commonality. This same commonality can be found in Malay and in the Polynesian languages, as well as some words in common usage in the Aboriginal languages of Northern Australia.

In fact I have read that if you can understand Malay (ie, BI) you can more or less follow Maori.

The Northern Australian Aboriginals picked up the words from visiting fishermen from islands in the Archipelago, principally from Sulawesi, which in effect means Bugis, and there are acknowledged family links between people in Sulawesi and Aboriginal people in Northern Australia.

In Bahasa Indonesia we find a multitude of words that come from European languages, principally Portuguese, Dutch and English.

28th August 2016, 11:52 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Great contribution Alan. The "afterthought" goes a long ways towards explaining the difference in terms. One almost seems like the action while the other does the action.

29th August 2016, 02:59 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Not quite Charles. To cut with a pedang is "medhang". To chop is "marang", and the chopping can be with a knife or other chopper, but "marang" comes from "parang", thus a parang is a chopper, but a knife or sword can be a parang, depending on how it is used, and a parang can be a sword (pedang) depending on how it is used. So if you "medhang" with a parang, during the course of that action, the parang becomes a pedang. In Javanese a golok can be a dagger, in BI it is a something like a machete, and in current common usage I believe most Javanese would call a short dagger that can be used for chopping, a golok. To slash with a klewang is "nglewang". In Jawa/Bali/Madura it is not just a matter of looking up the form and name in book, or going to a dictionary and looking for the equivalent of sword. To use a language, and this includes words from a language we need to be able to think as the native speakers of that language think. I've gone on record previously about the name game, so I will not now say any more, except that this "correct name " thing is not as easy as it might appear, at least not with weapons from Indonesia.

29th August 2016, 04:01 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is very funny: read post #152 at the Shashka topic. Virtually identical info regarding North Caucasian languages and the Western propensity to mislabel Eastern weapons because of their ignorance of local linguistical nuances:-)))

29th August 2016, 11:36 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Beautiful pedang!

29th August 2016, 08:36 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Alan, "parang" in Bahasa Indonesian, which is a cutting implement, may be related to the word "parang" in a sister language, Tagalog, which means "field". The connection of cutting a field with a cutting implement. I find etymology fascinating.

30th August 2016, 12:23 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Maybe, but the same word "parang" has two entirely separate meanings in Javanese:- a chopper, cleaver or knife a cliff. It is the name of a well known batik motif, where the motif supposedly represents a ruined cliff:- "parang rusak". A lot of languages all across SE Asia have similarities, there is a good reference chart in Raffles that sets out in matrixical form words from various languages, you can read across the page and see the commonality. This same commonality can be found in Malay and in the Polynesian languages, as well as some words in common usage in the Aboriginal languages of Northern Australia. In fact I have read that if you can understand Malay (ie, BI) you can more or less follow Maori. The Northern Australian Aboriginals picked up the words from visiting fishermen from islands in the Archipelago, principally from Sulawesi, which in effect means Bugis, and there are acknowledged family links between people in Sulawesi and Aboriginal people in Northern Australia. In Bahasa Indonesia we find a multitude of words that come from European languages, principally Portuguese, Dutch and English.