Classifying shashka--a serious discussion of typology

ariel · 25th August 2016, 12:48 AM

And a million $$ question: was there an old local weapon serving as a "prototype" or an "ancestor" for both Afghani and Uzbek shashka-like sabers?

Quite some time ago Mercenary posted on a Russian Forum a series of pictures from a book TARIKH-E JAHANGOSHAY-E NADERI written by a Nader Shah's secretary Mirza Mohammed Mehdi Esterbadi and published in 1757. It refers to the war between Persian and Afghani armies, comprising several battles.

Here are several examples: mostly Afghanis, but also some Persians hold guardless swords. It might be an artist's lack of accuracy, but there are clear depictions of shamshirs WITH guards. Moreover, there is a fragment showing 2 Persian horsemen, with empty scabbars on their sides: one traditional saber "edge down", another a typical shashka " edge up".

These pics open a Pandora box of questions:

-were there Persian but mainly Central Asian guardless sabers that we were not privileged to see in nature?
- if so, were they purely local or brought by other ethnoses? For example, Caucasian ( Circassian, Georgian, Armenian) mercenaries fought alonside Nader Shah troops. Even more, the same mercenaries constituted the bulk of Shah Abbas cavalry during his invasion of Aghanistan.

It is so tempting to suggest that shashka-like weapon came to Afghanistan and Central Asia straight from Caucasus. However, we should temper our enthusiasm until we figure it out better. There is, apparently, only one Caucasian shashka in the Kremlin Armoury allegedly documented to be of XVIII century. Nothing earlier. Thus, even if we believe the documentation, it is dated well after the reign of Nader Shah and a century and a half after Shah Abbas.

In any case, please see for yourself.

ariel · 25th August 2016, 12:52 AM

+1

estcrh · 25th August 2016, 01:33 AM

Ariel, these are great images showing armor and weapons.

ariel · 25th August 2016, 02:44 AM

Here are 2 examples of Afghani sabers, both with elman.
The one with the scabbard is mine.

The integral bolster, the chape and the top of the scabbard are distinctly Afghani. The top of the scabbard also has a slit, similar to what we see on Ottomas palas.

The other one is, of course, M D, Long's example.

Are they what we are talking about as a predecessor of the Afghani "pseudoshashka"? And, perhaps, even the Bukharan saber?

ariel · 25th August 2016, 02:49 AM

Strangely, both very much resemble the Algerean boarding cutlasses as shown in Elgood's book on Balkan weapons.

estcrh · 25th August 2016, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Strangely, both very much resemble the Algerean boarding cutlasses as shown in Elgood's book on Balkan weapons.

Like these?

ariel · 25th August 2016, 11:04 AM

Yes.
The very same:-)

25th August 2016, 12:48 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And a million $$ question: was there an old local weapon serving as a "prototype" or an "ancestor" for both Afghani and Uzbek shashka-like sabers? Quite some time ago Mercenary posted on a Russian Forum a series of pictures from a book TARIKH-E JAHANGOSHAY-E NADERI written by a Nader Shah's secretary Mirza Mohammed Mehdi Esterbadi and published in 1757. It refers to the war between Persian and Afghani armies, comprising several battles. Here are several examples: mostly Afghanis, but also some Persians hold guardless swords. It might be an artist's lack of accuracy, but there are clear depictions of shamshirs WITH guards. Moreover, there is a fragment showing 2 Persian horsemen, with empty scabbars on their sides: one traditional saber "edge down", another a typical shashka " edge up". These pics open a Pandora box of questions: -were there Persian but mainly Central Asian guardless sabers that we were not privileged to see in nature? - if so, were they purely local or brought by other ethnoses? For example, Caucasian ( Circassian, Georgian, Armenian) mercenaries fought alonside Nader Shah troops. Even more, the same mercenaries constituted the bulk of Shah Abbas cavalry during his invasion of Aghanistan. It is so tempting to suggest that shashka-like weapon came to Afghanistan and Central Asia straight from Caucasus. However, we should temper our enthusiasm until we figure it out better. There is, apparently, only one Caucasian shashka in the Kremlin Armoury allegedly documented to be of XVIII century. Nothing earlier. Thus, even if we believe the documentation, it is dated well after the reign of Nader Shah and a century and a half after Shah Abbas. In any case, please see for yourself. Attached Images Last edited by ariel; 25th August 2016 at 02:03 AM.

25th August 2016, 12:52 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	+1 Attached Images

25th August 2016, 01:33 AM	#3
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Ariel, these are great images showing armor and weapons. Attached Images

25th August 2016, 02:44 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Here are 2 examples of Afghani sabers, both with elman. The one with the scabbard is mine. The integral bolster, the chape and the top of the scabbard are distinctly Afghani. The top of the scabbard also has a slit, similar to what we see on Ottomas palas. The other one is, of course, M D, Long's example. Are they what we are talking about as a predecessor of the Afghani "pseudoshashka"? And, perhaps, even the Bukharan saber? Attached Images

25th August 2016, 02:49 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Strangely, both very much resemble the Algerean boarding cutlasses as shown in Elgood's book on Balkan weapons.

25th August 2016, 11:04 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes. The very same:-)