My first Keris

nechesh · 12th February 2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Lovely 13 luk keris from Solo, Surakarta. For a starter this is a very good keris.
This keris is called a keris bolong. Bolong is refering to the holes in the sogokan. It is said that when the owner is looking through the holes to a woman he wants, he will get her.

Happy hunting

There has been some serious debate as to whether or not this is "true" bolong (also seen spelled combong and complong). Some will insist that real bolong exist only when it was there from the start as a feature created by the empu. I have seen such keris, though they are somewhat rare. I have heard it argued that calling this bolong it merely an attempt to place a higher spiritual value on what is ultimately a defect in the keris making revealed through years of acidic etching. IMO though, i think when a blade has lasted this long and received constant attention (i.e. washing) that it does deservre some added respect. But i wouldn't set your wedding date yet.

The bit of metal stuck in the hole is curious and interesting. Any idea of it's actual composition? I could, as suggested, be a way of honoring the keris. The idea of a repair seems unlikely to me because i would expect it to fill the entire hole and probably both.
The mendak looks pretty old and tired and has lost all it's stones . You might want to further honor the keris by replacing it with a new one. Nice quality mendaks are available at relatively resonable prices. (see the mendak on simatau's keris).
BTW Martin, why do you think this one is Madurese? And where does your information about Madurese soldiers preferring 13 luk blades come from. I have never read that.

simatua · 12th February 2006, 03:09 PM

You'r right about the mendak nechesh, I did put on a new one because there was no mendak at all.
personally i preffer an old one, even with some damage or stones etc missing than a fancy new mendak.
taste is different. About the info...I look it up and come back.

Nechesch can you show us a photo of your keris with the forged bolong?
thanks

Henk · 12th February 2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

The bit of metal stuck in the hole is curious and interesting. Any idea of it's actual composition? I could, as suggested, be a way of honoring the keris. The idea of a repair seems unlikely to me because i would expect it to fill the entire hole and probably both.

BTW Martin, why do you think this one is Madurese? And where does your information about Madurese soldiers preferring 13 luk blades come from. I have never read that.

The piece of metal in the hole is not a piece of nickle that resisted the etching. Not a strange thought because the iron of the blade is eaten away while the nickle resists the etching. It is added later and in my opinion you should remove it. IMHO it is not something to honor the keris. By honoring the keris I'm sure something more valueable would be added.

That madurese soldiers prefered 13 luk blades is also new for me. I'm very curious to hear where you got that information.

simatua · 13th February 2006, 07:22 PM

To Nechesh, Henk and all other keris lovers/colectors.
first of all its good to have some criticism and have questions if someone makes a statement or say something about kerises.

There are many articles and books written about kerises, but as we say in the Netherlands "not everything cuts wood" many things written do not have a good source and opinions of several writers are different.

this forum is ment to have fun and learn from eachother, although for me.
to stick to the true, is imo important.
The statement i put on " that madures soldiers preffer 13 luk blades" i cannot build upon a fundation found in - a to my eyes - reliable source.

seeing this blade;looking at the pamor, it gave me the idea that it came from Madura.i m a keris colllector/learner for about 10 yrs, and from the things i have seen and compared i still think it is...other opinions are more than welcome, after all this is a discussion forum.

That many kerises from madura can be found in a Surakarta dress, comes true the fact that after the Java war(1825-1830) many soldiers were permantly quartered in the so called "Land of the princes" Solo/Dyogya.

maybe i'dd mixed some things up..hope to straiten it by this.

Henk · 15th February 2006, 01:30 PM

Martin,

Just like you we have fun on the forum and learn a lot from our fellow members.
Please, dont see the remarks Nechesh and I made as criticism. Because it isn't. We just want to know where your info comes from.

As a dutch just like you are, you and I know that especially on the subject keris the knowledge about the keris is not always found in books. A lot of our fellow countrymen where inhabitants of Indonesia who came in the fifties to Holland and they didn't wrote their knowledge in books but passed it oral to their sons and the interested dutch youngsters who where fascinated by the keris and wanted ancious to learn. That last part was certainly for me.

I for instance have on a small sheet written down by an Indonesian friend of my in those days the steps for cleaning the keris. I bet that that is not found in any book. Scientific?? Certainly not!! But for me it is a treasure and the knowledge passed to me how to take care for your keris. And it is just as you said and other forum members made that remark before, also the authors of the books differ in their opinions and made mistakes.

So don't see it as an attack. We just want to gather knowledge just like you.

nechesh · 15th February 2006, 01:55 PM

Thanks for clarifying your position Martin. Still, i think i will stick with Javanese origin, probably sometime in the Mataram kingdom.
As Henk said, we were both interested in your source for yur comment on Madurese soldiers because when we hear a factoid that we haven't heard before we wonder what references we are missing in our libraries.

Henk · 15th February 2006, 04:40 PM

Martin,

Just like Nechesh i'm afraid that I'm convinced that this keris is javanese and not madurese.

Mans · 17th February 2006, 04:59 PM

hi dear all,

I just want to give my opinion about Valjhun keris ;
I think the dapur called Parungsari with Pamor Wos Wutah (strewn rice). That because this keris has 13 luks and 2 Lambe Gajah and another ricikans. Different with Sengkelat which has just 1 Lambe Gajah.

For another example of Parungsari Keris : http://keris.fotopic.net/p22383543.html

And this one called Sengkelat : http://keris.fotopic.net/p24377230.html

From the iron kind, luk style, sirah cecak, bend of the wadidang and kembang kacang style, I supposed that this keris came from Mataram period, more specific ; Mataram Sultan Agung period (about 16th century). Nice keris !!

The wrangka is and old made in Gayaman Surakarta style from Timoho wood.
Nice wrangka !!

The old mendak called Kendhit with beads which made from Zakut stones, like a diamond but more dull.

Many the Mataram Sultan Agung kerises made with deep Sogokan. So that many keris from this period came with hole at the Sogokan, especially if the owner didn't taken care it well.

Overall, this is an authentic good keris with good wrangka !!

12th February 2006, 03:09 PM	#2
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	replacing the mendak You'r right about the mendak nechesh, I did put on a new one because there was no mendak at all. personally i preffer an old one, even with some damage or stones etc missing than a fancy new mendak. taste is different. About the info...I look it up and come back. Nechesch can you show us a photo of your keris with the forged bolong? thanks

13th February 2006, 07:22 PM	#4
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	criticism is good To Nechesh, Henk and all other keris lovers/colectors. first of all its good to have some criticism and have questions if someone makes a statement or say something about kerises. There are many articles and books written about kerises, but as we say in the Netherlands "not everything cuts wood" many things written do not have a good source and opinions of several writers are different. this forum is ment to have fun and learn from eachother, although for me. to stick to the true, is imo important. The statement i put on " that madures soldiers preffer 13 luk blades" i cannot build upon a fundation found in - a to my eyes - reliable source. seeing this blade;looking at the pamor, it gave me the idea that it came from Madura.i m a keris colllector/learner for about 10 yrs, and from the things i have seen and compared i still think it is...other opinions are more than welcome, after all this is a discussion forum. That many kerises from madura can be found in a Surakarta dress, comes true the fact that after the Java war(1825-1830) many soldiers were permantly quartered in the so called "Land of the princes" Solo/Dyogya. maybe i'dd mixed some things up..hope to straiten it by this.

17th February 2006, 04:59 PM	#8
Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Java Posts: 137	Dapur and Tangguh hi dear all, I just want to give my opinion about Valjhun keris ; I think the dapur called Parungsari with Pamor Wos Wutah (strewn rice). That because this keris has 13 luks and 2 Lambe Gajah and another ricikans. Different with Sengkelat which has just 1 Lambe Gajah. For another example of Parungsari Keris : http://keris.fotopic.net/p22383543.html And this one called Sengkelat : http://keris.fotopic.net/p24377230.html From the iron kind, luk style, sirah cecak, bend of the wadidang and kembang kacang style, I supposed that this keris came from Mataram period, more specific ; Mataram Sultan Agung period (about 16th century). Nice keris !! The wrangka is and old made in Gayaman Surakarta style from Timoho wood. Nice wrangka !! The old mendak called Kendhit with beads which made from Zakut stones, like a diamond but more dull. Many the Mataram Sultan Agung kerises made with deep Sogokan. So that many keris from this period came with hole at the Sogokan, especially if the owner didn't taken care it well. Overall, this is an authentic good keris with good wrangka !!

15th February 2006, 01:30 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Martin, Just like you we have fun on the forum and learn a lot from our fellow members. Please, dont see the remarks Nechesh and I made as criticism. Because it isn't. We just want to know where your info comes from. As a dutch just like you are, you and I know that especially on the subject keris the knowledge about the keris is not always found in books. A lot of our fellow countrymen where inhabitants of Indonesia who came in the fifties to Holland and they didn't wrote their knowledge in books but passed it oral to their sons and the interested dutch youngsters who where fascinated by the keris and wanted ancious to learn. That last part was certainly for me. I for instance have on a small sheet written down by an Indonesian friend of my in those days the steps for cleaning the keris. I bet that that is not found in any book. Scientific?? Certainly not!! But for me it is a treasure and the knowledge passed to me how to take care for your keris. And it is just as you said and other forum members made that remark before, also the authors of the books differ in their opinions and made mistakes. So don't see it as an attack. We just want to gather knowledge just like you.

15th February 2006, 01:55 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Thanks for clarifying your position Martin. Still, i think i will stick with Javanese origin, probably sometime in the Mataram kingdom. As Henk said, we were both interested in your source for yur comment on Madurese soldiers because when we hear a factoid that we haven't heard before we wonder what references we are missing in our libraries.

15th February 2006, 04:40 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Martin, Just like Nechesh i'm afraid that I'm convinced that this keris is javanese and not madurese.