18th century hanger with possible naval connections

Jim McDougall · 13th August 2016, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Wow, Glenn, that is a great article on the development of French swords of the period! Thank you so much and I'm going to print a copy for future reference. It is easy to forget about the latter 18th/early 19th c. patterns of brass hilt swords when you start perusing through all of the Russian pioneer swords, Saxon infantry and the massive pile of briquettes out there.

Jim, just don't be going after that hidden treasure that eccentric millionaire buried out that way! I know how you are about treasure, you old scalawag! Still, I was tempted to at least look up the clues he left...

Hey Mark,
Actually it is tempting, I could use some of that treasure about now......the old bookmobile has about run its course 9years and over 50, 000 miles later. We are in the process of trade in for a new one and $$$$$$$$ yikes!

I'm always glad to see Glen on these American sword topics........his archives must be like the Library of Congress!! I always scribble notes as these swords are his domain and learn a lot here from him!

Shake the trees....... California indeed was pretty much autonomous, and retained its Spanish culture. It is amazing how these states often were sort of their own countries in those days. Utah had the Mormons who had their own army; Arizona was its own territory; California by the Civil War had its Californios whose units participated into Arizona regions as that little known theater of the war filtered westward. The Mormons had their own units as well, I believe they might have been Nauvoo Legion.

Finding weapons from all these very esoterically known units of these territories is pretty exciting, but hard to come by.

Hotspur · 14th August 2016, 12:34 AM

Jim, I am but a wayfayer following the footprints of giants.

M ELEY · 15th August 2016, 12:25 AM

I like to think of ourselves as the purveyors of knowledge, even if we are simply passing along something we learned 'from the giants!' In any case, I have always appreciated all of the advice, knowledge, and guesswork I have gleaned from our many forumites over the years.

Here are some closeups of the hilt. Note the birdhead construction, early capstan and separate brass guard (not all one piece, as the later 19th c. pieces are. I love the old yellow patina to the grip. Note the little notch to the knucklebow, which on Brit pieces often have a drilled hole post 1790.

M ELEY · 15th August 2016, 12:43 AM

More, showing nice watered steel blade and slightly off center spear point-

M ELEY · 15th August 2016, 12:47 AM

Glenn, I thought about your comments on Prahl swords and managed to find a very similar hilt in an article from Man-at-Arms magazine.

While I'm not saying mine is a Prahl nor even that it's American, I will stick to my guns and say that I think it shows it to be of the same period, ca. 1780-1810, perfect for the QuasiWar, 1812/Napoleonic period. I also think you got it in the right region, France.

M ELEY · 15th August 2016, 12:52 AM

I'm willing to admit that the RX probably is just ordinance marking, but as far as No.46 being too high a number for naval usage, I don't agree when it comes to privateering. No doubt, these groups of one-off swords could have been made in large batches for a small squadron of ships. I'm not swearing it's naval, I'm just saying it is still possible. Then there is the possibility that Glenn brought up that it could be a marine piece. In any case, an 18th/early 19th c. hanger, possibly French, possibly naval...

Jim McDougall · 15th August 2016, 08:01 PM

Excellent call Glen! That makes perfect sense and a compelling possible attribution.
BTW.....you IS one of the giants

Mark, we are indeed gatherers of information and discovery on these weapons, and we all learn together from them. The fun and adventure is the secrets they hold, and often share with us, sometimes it seems almost reluctantly. We are a band of adventurers and romantics in a quest to find those treasures........though they aint gold....they are golden!!!! Arrrr!

15th August 2016, 12:25 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	I like to think of ourselves as the purveyors of knowledge, even if we are simply passing along something we learned 'from the giants!' In any case, I have always appreciated all of the advice, knowledge, and guesswork I have gleaned from our many forumites over the years. Here are some closeups of the hilt. Note the birdhead construction, early capstan and separate brass guard (not all one piece, as the later 19th c. pieces are. I love the old yellow patina to the grip. Note the little notch to the knucklebow, which on Brit pieces often have a drilled hole post 1790. Attached Images

15th August 2016, 12:43 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	More, showing nice watered steel blade and slightly off center spear point- Attached Images

15th August 2016, 12:47 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Glenn, I thought about your comments on Prahl swords and managed to find a very similar hilt in an article from Man-at-Arms magazine. While I'm not saying mine is a Prahl nor even that it's American, I will stick to my guns and say that I think it shows it to be of the same period, ca. 1780-1810, perfect for the QuasiWar, 1812/Napoleonic period. I also think you got it in the right region, France. Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 15th August 2016 at 02:04 AM.

14th August 2016, 12:34 AM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 522	Jim, I am but a wayfayer following the footprints of giants.

15th August 2016, 12:52 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	I'm willing to admit that the RX probably is just ordinance marking, but as far as No.46 being too high a number for naval usage, I don't agree when it comes to privateering. No doubt, these groups of one-off swords could have been made in large batches for a small squadron of ships. I'm not swearing it's naval, I'm just saying it is still possible. Then there is the possibility that Glenn brought up that it could be a marine piece. In any case, an 18th/early 19th c. hanger, possibly French, possibly naval...

15th August 2016, 08:01 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,453	Excellent call Glen! That makes perfect sense and a compelling possible attribution. BTW.....you IS one of the giants Mark, we are indeed gatherers of information and discovery on these weapons, and we all learn together from them. The fun and adventure is the secrets they hold, and often share with us, sometimes it seems almost reluctantly. We are a band of adventurers and romantics in a quest to find those treasures........though they aint gold....they are golden!!!! Arrrr!