Minangkabau(?) keris

A. G. Maisey · 30th July 2016, 11:45 PM

A word on cleaning.

Before soaking the blade it is a very good practice to remove any non-ferrous metals from the blade, the reason being that copper and brass can leave a deposit on the blade, similar to electro-plating, and this can be a bit difficult to remove. With this blade, get rid of the brass or whatever in the gonjo hole, and the pin that is stuck in the fixing hole.

In respect of the fluid used to clean.
For many years I used pineapple juice, but it was juice from fresh pineapples, not recomposed juice made from pineapple concentrate. The juice made from pineapple concentrate will clean a blade, but it is not good. I have stopped using it. I never have liked lemon juice, it seems to be too harsh, and the juice from my lemons makes a blade very dark and too difficult to stain when the cleaning is complete. Lime juice seems to be OK, but limes are very, very expensive.

Citric acid is OK, but the last 20 or 30 blades that I've cleaned I have done with ordinary household white vinegar. This works well and does not damage the blade.

This blade that we are considering at the moment will need daily mechanical cleaning during the cleaning, a small, sharp pointed implement is best used for this. I use a scraper made from a small triangular file that has a radius ground onto it.

It is essential to carry out a proper process.

Each day the blade must be removed from the vinegar and brushed with a stiff brush, rinsed under running water, dried, mechanically cleaned, rinsed, dried, returned to the vinegar.

When the blade has had all the corrosion removed it is rinsed thoroughly, then it is painted with a slurry of bicarbonate of soda which is worked into it well.

Allow the blade to stand for a while, say 15 minutes, rinse thoroughly, wash with dishwash detergent under running water, rinse thoroughly, dry with a clean lint free cloth, dry again with a hair dryer, spray with WD40 and allow to stand overnight. Then paint it with oil (lots of discussion on oils) and wrap in plastic film.

If you want the blade in the white when finished cleaning, steel wool (OO) and powder sink cleaner is effective. Wash thoroughly under running water and with dishwash liquid when the blade is clean of the dark stain. You do this before the drying and oiling.

ariel · 31st July 2016, 01:33 AM

Thanks Alan!
I knew this would be a long process.... Nothing is simple with you, kris lovers:-)

And special thanks for your vinegar comments: I have no pineapple or lime tree in my backyard in Michigan, and always wondered why you, guys, were always using exotic juices when a a nice clean organic acid was freely available in a local supermarket for pennies per gallon.
BTW: Do you have any comments about this kris?

A. G. Maisey · 31st July 2016, 02:09 AM

No Ariel, no comments on the keris. I do not share the enthusiasm of others for keris from areas other than the areas of origin of the keris, as a consequence my knowledge of keris from these other areas is less than good. I do have opinions, but I learnt long ago that my opinions in respect of these keris only upset people, so I keep them to myself.

Re the use of pineapple juice & etc.

I started to clean and restore keris over 60 years ago, and at that time I was using methods described in 19th century books written by Europeans. These books talked about coconut water as the correct fluid to use.

Well, I couldn't get coconut water, so I thought about what other sort of natural juices I could use. I tried tomato juice, and apple juice and orange juice. I tried just about everything I could buy in can and everything I could squeeze out of a fruit.

I finally settled on pineapple juice as a cheap, easily obtainable juice that did an excellent job and did not harm the blade, no matter how long you left it in the juice.

As noted above , I stopped using pineapple juice when juice from fresh pineapples became unobtainable. This was caused by the sale of the Golden Circle company to the Heinz Group which did not waste any time in rationalising products and organisation to maximise returns. The Little Men in Grey Suits chalked up another victory. Incidentally, the new version of the juice is not only lousy to clean blades, it also tastes lousy.

But anyway, I used pineapple juice for a very long time, and I passed the recommendation for its use on to a lot of people. I guess other people also discovered its properties, independent of any advice from me.

However, about limes.

There is absolutely no substitute for freshly squeezed juice from Tahitian Limes mixed with warangan when it comes to staining a blade.

ariel · 31st July 2016, 02:28 AM

Tahitian lime juice, Beefeater gin, a touch of arsenic, shaken not stirred....

Sounds adventurous, doesn't it?

Rafngard · 31st July 2016, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

However, about limes.

There is absolutely no substitute for freshly squeezed juice from Tahitian Limes mixed with warangan when it comes to staining a blade.

The internet is telling me that Tahitian lime is the same thing as Persian lime (perhaps the most commonly sold lime in the us). I am skeptical of this.
Am I right to be so?

Thanks,
Leif

A. G. Maisey · 31st July 2016, 03:20 AM

In Australia we call the limes that I use "Tahitian limes". At the moment I do not have a tree, but I did have a tree 20 years ago, the tree was sold to me as a Tahitian Lime, in the supermarkets fruit that was the same as on my tree was called "Tahitian Lime".

In Jawa limes that appear to be exactly the same as this are called jeruk nipis.

In appearance the fruit is round, about the same size as a large egg, very green. Taste is more acidic than a lemon.

I do not know what Persian limes are.

A. G. Maisey · 31st July 2016, 03:24 AM

Ariel, re Beefeater gin.

Bet you didn't know that many "pure fruit juice" products on the market are processed with an extract made from beef and with alcohol, did you?

Basically a lot of this stuff is not halal.

Before consumption check with the manufacturer if this is a concern to you.

Sajen · 31st July 2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafngard

The internet is telling me that Tahitian lime is the same thing as Persian lime (perhaps the most commonly sold lime in the us). I am skeptical of this.
Am I right to be so?

Hello Leif,

don't think that you need to be skeptical, a few days ago I've seen at tv a documentation, it will be Persian lime.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 31st July 2016, 01:55 PM

Jean, I've tried stronger vinegar, here they label it as cleaning vinegar.

What I have found is that when the material of the blade is good, dense material, well compacted and with a relatively smooth surface, the stronger vinegar does give a faster result, however, when the material is of lesser quality and not smooth and compacted the stronger vinegar tends to leave the blade looking like a sponge.

The time taken to clean is immaterial to me. In the past , with pineapple juice I would sometimes take 2 weeks or moreto thoroughly clean a blade, and perhaps renew the juice several times during the process, especially in summer. I like the process to proceed slowly because it is easier to control.

The brushes I use are old tooth brushes, hard is better, but I usually use soft brushes, because that's what gets used in the house. I do not use metal brushes, and frankly I consider them unnecessary, because the vinegar --- or whatever is being used --- softens the corrosion to the point where all that is required is relatively gentle brushing to remove the loose residue of the rust.

Yes, I acknowledge that my process is slow, but it is very, very safe.

Jean · 2nd August 2016, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, I've tried stronger vinegar, here they label it as cleaning vinegar.

What I have found is that when the material of the blade is good, dense material, well compacted and with a relatively smooth surface, the stronger vinegar does give a faster result, however, when the material is of lesser quality and not smooth and compacted the stronger vinegar tends to leave the blade looking like a sponge.

This is an example of "spongy" blade after acid cleaning as described by Alan. I used a regular household vinegar/ 10% citric acid mix for cleaning this blade but it was severely corroded, and this is the result! I should better have removed most of the rust mechanically and just polished & oiled it.

Regards

30th July 2016, 11:45 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	A word on cleaning. Before soaking the blade it is a very good practice to remove any non-ferrous metals from the blade, the reason being that copper and brass can leave a deposit on the blade, similar to electro-plating, and this can be a bit difficult to remove. With this blade, get rid of the brass or whatever in the gonjo hole, and the pin that is stuck in the fixing hole. In respect of the fluid used to clean. For many years I used pineapple juice, but it was juice from fresh pineapples, not recomposed juice made from pineapple concentrate. The juice made from pineapple concentrate will clean a blade, but it is not good. I have stopped using it. I never have liked lemon juice, it seems to be too harsh, and the juice from my lemons makes a blade very dark and too difficult to stain when the cleaning is complete. Lime juice seems to be OK, but limes are very, very expensive. Citric acid is OK, but the last 20 or 30 blades that I've cleaned I have done with ordinary household white vinegar. This works well and does not damage the blade. This blade that we are considering at the moment will need daily mechanical cleaning during the cleaning, a small, sharp pointed implement is best used for this. I use a scraper made from a small triangular file that has a radius ground onto it. It is essential to carry out a proper process. Each day the blade must be removed from the vinegar and brushed with a stiff brush, rinsed under running water, dried, mechanically cleaned, rinsed, dried, returned to the vinegar. When the blade has had all the corrosion removed it is rinsed thoroughly, then it is painted with a slurry of bicarbonate of soda which is worked into it well. Allow the blade to stand for a while, say 15 minutes, rinse thoroughly, wash with dishwash detergent under running water, rinse thoroughly, dry with a clean lint free cloth, dry again with a hair dryer, spray with WD40 and allow to stand overnight. Then paint it with oil (lots of discussion on oils) and wrap in plastic film. If you want the blade in the white when finished cleaning, steel wool (OO) and powder sink cleaner is effective. Wash thoroughly under running water and with dishwash liquid when the blade is clean of the dark stain. You do this before the drying and oiling.

31st July 2016, 01:33 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks Alan! I knew this would be a long process.... Nothing is simple with you, kris lovers:-) And special thanks for your vinegar comments: I have no pineapple or lime tree in my backyard in Michigan, and always wondered why you, guys, were always using exotic juices when a a nice clean organic acid was freely available in a local supermarket for pennies per gallon. BTW: Do you have any comments about this kris?

31st July 2016, 02:09 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	No Ariel, no comments on the keris. I do not share the enthusiasm of others for keris from areas other than the areas of origin of the keris, as a consequence my knowledge of keris from these other areas is less than good. I do have opinions, but I learnt long ago that my opinions in respect of these keris only upset people, so I keep them to myself. Re the use of pineapple juice & etc. I started to clean and restore keris over 60 years ago, and at that time I was using methods described in 19th century books written by Europeans. These books talked about coconut water as the correct fluid to use. Well, I couldn't get coconut water, so I thought about what other sort of natural juices I could use. I tried tomato juice, and apple juice and orange juice. I tried just about everything I could buy in can and everything I could squeeze out of a fruit. I finally settled on pineapple juice as a cheap, easily obtainable juice that did an excellent job and did not harm the blade, no matter how long you left it in the juice. As noted above , I stopped using pineapple juice when juice from fresh pineapples became unobtainable. This was caused by the sale of the Golden Circle company to the Heinz Group which did not waste any time in rationalising products and organisation to maximise returns. The Little Men in Grey Suits chalked up another victory. Incidentally, the new version of the juice is not only lousy to clean blades, it also tastes lousy. But anyway, I used pineapple juice for a very long time, and I passed the recommendation for its use on to a lot of people. I guess other people also discovered its properties, independent of any advice from me. However, about limes. There is absolutely no substitute for freshly squeezed juice from Tahitian Limes mixed with warangan when it comes to staining a blade.

31st July 2016, 02:28 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Tahitian lime juice, Beefeater gin, a touch of arsenic, shaken not stirred.... Sounds adventurous, doesn't it?

31st July 2016, 03:20 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	In Australia we call the limes that I use "Tahitian limes". At the moment I do not have a tree, but I did have a tree 20 years ago, the tree was sold to me as a Tahitian Lime, in the supermarkets fruit that was the same as on my tree was called "Tahitian Lime". In Jawa limes that appear to be exactly the same as this are called jeruk nipis. In appearance the fruit is round, about the same size as a large egg, very green. Taste is more acidic than a lemon. I do not know what Persian limes are.

31st July 2016, 03:24 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Ariel, re Beefeater gin. Bet you didn't know that many "pure fruit juice" products on the market are processed with an extract made from beef and with alcohol, did you? Basically a lot of this stuff is not halal. Before consumption check with the manufacturer if this is a concern to you.

31st July 2016, 01:55 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Jean, I've tried stronger vinegar, here they label it as cleaning vinegar. What I have found is that when the material of the blade is good, dense material, well compacted and with a relatively smooth surface, the stronger vinegar does give a faster result, however, when the material is of lesser quality and not smooth and compacted the stronger vinegar tends to leave the blade looking like a sponge. The time taken to clean is immaterial to me. In the past , with pineapple juice I would sometimes take 2 weeks or moreto thoroughly clean a blade, and perhaps renew the juice several times during the process, especially in summer. I like the process to proceed slowly because it is easier to control. The brushes I use are old tooth brushes, hard is better, but I usually use soft brushes, because that's what gets used in the house. I do not use metal brushes, and frankly I consider them unnecessary, because the vinegar --- or whatever is being used --- softens the corrosion to the point where all that is required is relatively gentle brushing to remove the loose residue of the rust. Yes, I acknowledge that my process is slow, but it is very, very safe.