Sumatran, Borneo or Moro???

[Rick]

Originally Posted by VVV

I recieved an e-mail from another collector that he think this is a Moro Shandigan Barung with a variation of the Naga hilt (see Cato).
I find this info very probable.

Michael

I can see why he would think so but the barring on the blade and the way it is cut down to a neck at the hilt seems very un-Moro to me .
I (like Shelley) wonder if it has not been modified by another culture .
Is this blade chisel edged (flat on the other side) Michael ?

Can we have some more pictures ?
I'd like to see the detailing on the punto and the other side of the blade .

[VVV]

Rick, LabanTayo and others,

Here are a couple of additional pictures.
The blade looks identical on both sides.
Please note the peculiar small hook close to the hilt?
Look forward to your comments.

Michael

[Rick]

I've got to admit to being stumped .

The decoration on the punto does not strike me as quite traditional okir patterns . The blade seems a bit thin for a barung but I have never handled a shandigan so I may well be off on this observation .

What is the material between the ivory and the punto ?

The filework at the forte of the blade is pretty puzzling as it does not quite look like the work seen on tenegre/sansibar/binangon blades .
Maybe we should be looking toward Borneo ....

[VVV]

Rick,

It's a horn ring.
I have seen a resembling decoration as on the silver on two of my Melanau
(NW Borneo) parang - a Sadap and a Parang Pedang.
Enclosed pictures for you to compare.
Otherwise usually the Melanau parang have heavy and thick blades.
I just noticed that there are 3 dots in a (female) triangle at the bottom
of the scabbard which is usually attributed to Sumatra?

Michael

[Rick]

Originally Posted by VVV

Rick,

It's a horn ring.
I have seen a resembling decoration as on the silver on two of my Melanau
(NW Borneo) parang - a Sadap and a Parang Pedang.
Enclosed pictures for you to compare.
Otherwise usually the Melanau parang have heavy and thick blades.
I just noticed that there are 3 dots in a (female) triangle at the bottom
of the scabbard which is usually attributed to Sumatra?

Michael

Interesting stuff Michael ; I must admit to being ignorant about the three dot = female Sumatran style motif you mention .

There is a traced Moro Sumatran connection in history of the S. Philippines .
If I recall correctly Saleeby mentions it in *The History of Sulu*.

Re the scabbard :
I would like to comment on the resemblance to a Dyak scabbard in that this one has a neck like the mandau scabbards .

[VVV]

Thanks for mentioning the Moro Sumatran connection.
As you know there are several Kris Sundang and some Kampilan in the
museum collections being collected in Sumatra.
Probably from the local colony of Moros that once moved south.
So why not a 2nd generation style Barong?
Seems like all of the Sumatran/Borneo/Moro tracks still are probable?

Michael

PS On the VVV pattern with flowers I forgot to add that this is also
sometimes found on Java. But I don't think that this weapon has had
anything to do with Java.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by VVV

Thanks for mentioning the Moro Sumatran connection.
As you know there are several Kris Sundang and some Kampilan in the
museum collections being collected in Sumatra.
Probably from the local colony of Moros that once moved south.
So why not a 2nd generation style Barong?
Seems like all of the Sumatran/Borneo/Moro tracks still are probable?

Michael

PS On the VVV pattern with flowers I forgot to add that this is also
sometimes found on Java. But I don't think that this weapon has had
anything to do with Java.

Hi Michael , IIRC the Sumatran connection with Sulu involved a noble family fleeing strife in Sumatra for the safety of the S. Philippines .
Mabagani or Federico could probably correct me or elaborate further .

Since there was trading all over the archipelago tracks could lead anywhere .

I just get this Borneo feeling from the piece ; but that feeling and $3.00 will get you a cup of coffee .