Oh well, I wasn't really in the market for another kris

[Jean]

Originally Posted by satrionumpaknogo

Madura ..

The garap of the dragon is so so n slightly of from pakem. You can also identified from the shape of dha at greneng it is soooo Madura

My advice keep ur money mate..Im not saying Madura Kris bad but Madura after Mataram era is slighly degrading on its quality n garap just like Madiun..sad really

If you look for Madura then look for Sumenep Dalem

Cheers

Hello Satrio,
Thanks for your input and please continue to participate in this forum, we need more Indonesian members to mitigate the Westerners' opinions
If you have a good specimen of genuine Sumenep Dalem blade, please show it to us for reference.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I live in Australia, and I have had a long,close and continuous association with a number of Koori people.

Regrettably none of my Koori friends has even a passable knowledge of most of their culture, including anything at all to do with their weaponry, in spite of the fact that a couple of them regularly use spears to take fish and prawns.

Cultural knowledge of any kind, relating to any culture is a very special field, and as such requires special education.

My friends have never received that education, instead their knowledge of their culture is a grab-bag of beliefs and stories, some of which seem to bear all the hallmarks of gubba origin.

Parallels may be drawn with other cultures.

[rasjid]

Hi Jean,

Your post #10 in regard Purnama sada wood is being used in Lombok among tree collectors. It's rare wood and understand by Balinese as well for keris rongko. It's a local naming and I just heard recently also.

Rasjid

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Satrio,
Thanks for your input and please continue to participate in this forum, we need more Indonesian members to mitigate the Westerners' opinions
If you have a good specimen of genuine Sumenep Dalem blade, please show it to us for reference.
Regards

Hi Jean. Please forgive me for making this point and i do realize that English is not your first language, but i am not sure that the word "mitigate" was quite the word you were looking for here.

mit·i·gate
verb
make less severe, serious, or painful.
"he wanted to mitigate misery in the world"
synonyms: alleviate, reduce, diminish, lessen, weaken, lighten, attenuate, take the edge off, allay, ease, assuage, palliate, relieve, tone down
"the worst symptoms have been mitigated"
antonyms: aggravate
lessen the gravity of (an offense or mistake).
"he would have faced a prison sentence but for mitigating circumstances"
synonyms: extenuating, justificatory, justifying, vindicating, qualifying; face-saving; formalexculpatory
"if not for mitigating circumstances, he would have been convicted"

We are, of course, always welcoming of people from all cultures to join us in our conversations on keris. As Alan has pointed out however, being of the Indonesian culture does not necessarily give more weight to that person's opinions, beliefs or knowledge of keris culture just as a Frenchman is not necessarily more knowledgable of fine wines. Weak analogy perhaps, but hopefully it gets the point across.

[satrionumpaknogo]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Jean. Please forgive me for making this point and i do realize that English is not your first language, but i am not sure that the word "mitigate" was quite the word you were looking for here.

mit·i·gate
verb
make less severe, serious, or painful.
"he wanted to mitigate misery in the world"
synonyms: alleviate, reduce, diminish, lessen, weaken, lighten, attenuate, take the edge off, allay, ease, assuage, palliate, relieve, tone down
"the worst symptoms have been mitigated"
antonyms: aggravate
lessen the gravity of (an offense or mistake).
"he would have faced a prison sentence but for mitigating circumstances"
synonyms: extenuating, justificatory, justifying, vindicating, qualifying; face-saving; formalexculpatory
"if not for mitigating circumstances, he would have been convicted"

We are, of course, always welcoming of people from all cultures to join us in our conversations on keris. As Alan has pointed out however, being of the Indonesian culture does not necessarily give more weight to that person's opinions, beliefs or knowledge of keris culture just as a Frenchman is not necessarily more knowledgable of fine wines. Weak analogy perhaps, but hopefully it gets the point across.

Agreed I thing "mitigate" is strong word but not entirely wrong. Apologise for my lack of politeness but I just need to say it that many misunderstanding regarding Kris culture is happening here at westerner forum.

Also no offence thats why lots of low class kris circulated in ebay or other online portal. Just piece of advice, high quality Kris not being sell online and the "pricing" not written in numbers but through candra sengkala.

e.g Gegana Luhur Pandhita Weling which is 7500 USD hehehehe..oh n you will not get full set with Warangka, only the blade like literally the blade on it's ligan or naked form.

So you see its true not all frenchmen understand fine wine, but it is in frenchmen blood to love wine.

Same goes to kris..yes 70 percent Indonesian dont understand wht the hell is kris or they only understand the magic side of it from oral story. However it is in Indonesian blood to love Kris as so their ancestor. So when Indonesian learning n loving Kris no number of westerner professor can beat him.

Kris is about olah pangroso, about doing the piwulang n paweling in everyday live ..about understanding the wisdom and it's implementation

Its like Yoga but in the form of Iron, Pamor and steel.



Salam

[David]

Originally Posted by satrionumpaknogo

So when Indonesian learning n loving Kris no number of westerner professor can beat him.

Ah, but then knowledge and its acquisition should never be a competition.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Jean. Please forgive me for making this point and i do realize that English is not your first language, but i am not sure that the word "mitigate" was quite the word you were looking for here.
......just as a Frenchman is not necessarily more knowledgable of fine wines.

Correct David, I should have checked in the dictionary, I meant refreshing our discussions with new comers having a different but valid experience (even if we may not totally accept some ideas), I miss Pak Ganja for instance.
Sorry but I am quite knowledgeable of fine French wines (within my limited budget) and I don't totally accept Robert Parker as the guru of Bordeaux wines....
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Correct David, I should have checked in the dictionary, I meant refreshing our discussions with new comers having a different but valid experience (even if we may not totally accept some ideas), I miss Pak Ganja for instance.
Sorry but I am quite knowledgeable of fine French wines (within my limited budget) and I don't totally accept Robert Parker as the guru of Bordeaux wines....
Regards

I certainly understood what your intention was Jean. I just wanted to make sure that others didn't misinterpret what you were trying to say.
As for wine, i'm a scotch man myself...

[A. G. Maisey]

Text removed because posted to incorrect thread.

[Marcus]

"The scabbard is in kojongan or kekojongan style from Bali/ Lombok, but apparently more frequently used in Lombok."

I see that in “Kris and other Malay weapons”, G.B. Gardner identifies this as the Madura type (Figure 13)

[David]

Originally Posted by Marcus

"The scabbard is in kojongan or kekojongan style from Bali/ Lombok, but apparently more frequently used in Lombok."

I see that in “Kris and other Malay weapons”, G.B. Gardner identifies this as the Madura type (Figure 13)

Marcus, though Gardner was an important figure in bringing the study of keris to light in the West he is not always 100% accurate in his writings.
The Walikat sheath form can be found in Jawa, Bali (though more often Lombok) and Madura, but it would be incorrect to identify it as solely a "Madura type" and i don't believe it originated in that location.

[satrionumpaknogo]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Satrio,
Thanks for your input and please continue to participate in this forum, we need more Indonesian members to mitigate the Westerners' opinions
If you have a good specimen of genuine Sumenep Dalem blade, please show it to us for reference.
Regards

Hello Jean I love to but I dont know how to upload picture it seems so complicated here to upload picture


Cheers

[David]

Originally Posted by satrionumpaknogo

Hello Jean I love to but I dont know how to upload picture it seems so complicated here to upload picture

Cheers

Uploading images is not really difficult at all. Simply click on "Manage Attachments" in the box below your posting window.
This thread might help you further if it is still confusing to you.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631