Solo keris for comment.

[Sajen]

Don't look Central Javanese to my eyes, I would place this keris more to East Java or to the North Coast, I tend to the last one. Would be interesting what others have to say.

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

I would agree Detlef, that dress is not Solo.
Sempana Bener might be a good guess on dhapur, though as far as i know that dhapur does not include greneng beyond the gonjo and on yours it seems to extend onto the blade itself. Closer images of the base of the blade might be helpful.

[Athanase]

Yes greneng begins on the blade.
This is a detail that was that I could not find the dapur.
I thought he came from Solo due to the handle.
For warangka gayaman I can recognize those of Madura and Yogyakarta but not those of other Java region. I don't know what is good documentation on this subject.

Thank you for your help.

[A. G. Maisey]

Nothing at all Solo about this keris.

It is fairly rustic work, and I cannot associate it with any kraton style. It has elements of both North Coast Jawa and East Jawa, but it could be from anywhere in Jawa or from anywhere with a Javanese influence.

[satrionumpaknogo]

Madura bro ..

U see to determined Kris from which era or area you need to look on the blade not the warangka bcoz warangka or the sheet n handle can be from anywhere depend on the owner favourite

Me for example I like Walikat I dont like Solo or Jogja style. Walikat bcoz it is sheet use back in Majapahit Era, Singhasari even Medang Kamulan kingdom n it is plane wood no pendok or anything..simple n practical.

Is it means my Kris from Majapahit..for some yes but others from Tuban era, Mataram era even Madura Sumenep Dalem era

Now regarding ur Kris it is not made by Mpu kraton like others mentioned I agree however Kris is more than just wht meet the eyes. It is the wisdom n the wielder willingness to practice the wisdom in everyday life is wht count.

Salam Rahayu

[David]

Originally Posted by satrionumpaknogo

Me for example I like Walikat I dont like Solo or Jogja style.

Welcome to the forum Rahayu.
Perhaps you can clear up something for me. You say above that you like Walikat, but not Solo or Jogja. It seems like you are mixing apples and oranges, as they say. Solo and Jogja are regions, kingdoms, while Walikat is a style of sheath. Are you really saying you prefer Walikat to Gayaman and Ladrang style sheaths? That would make more sense to me. It has always been my understanding that each of these sheath forms serves a different social function so personally i embrace them all, though i understand your preference for the simple and elegant forms that Walikat sheaths can take.

[satrionumpaknogo]

Originally Posted by David

Welcome to the forum Rahayu.
Perhaps you can clear up something for me. You say above that you like Walikat, but not Solo or Jogja. It seems like you are mixing apples and oranges, as they say. Solo and Jogja are regions, kingdoms, while Walikat is a style of sheath. Are you really saying you prefer Walikat to Gayaman and Ladrang style sheaths? That would make more sense to me. It has always been my understanding that each of these sheath forms serves a different social function so personally i embrace them all, though i understand your preference for the simple and elegant forms that Walikat sheaths can take.

yea you maybe right but when people say Solo or Jogja in term of warangka or sheet usually refer to Gayaman or Ladrang as these particular warangka associated with those two regions.

Regarding Walikat, it is because as I said in Majapahit era n the era before it no body know about gayaman or ladrang. These two warangka created in Mataram era. Majapahit era always use Walikat not because it simple or practical because Majapahit era span 500 years and mostly peaceful era which lead to Kris become piandel or pusaka (sorry dont know what English word for it) not a killing device so no need of practical or simple warangka.

Little explanation about piandel or pusaka, is Kris become something so powerful that to show it power you dont need to unsheet it just bring it and put it in your waist. I dont know you guys westerner understand or not but I can more clearer if you allow me I will put it on it own thread.

It is also an insult when keris Sajen being said as keris Majapahit, because keris sajen been exist as far as Kadiri and Daha Kingdom era or old Sunda even Sriwijaya and Medang Kamulan era.

Keris is not a killing device this you guys must understand. Its not wavy dagger use to stab some one or to kill some one. It is Karya Sastra Adiluhung written in the language of shape n metallurgy.

I think I will write about it and open a thread because there is big misunderstanding regarding Kris been going on. It need to be corrected


Satrio Numpak Nogo sign out hehehe

[David]

Originally Posted by satrionumpaknogo

yea you maybe right but when people say Solo or Jogja in term of warangka or sheet usually refer to Gayaman or Ladrang as these particular warangka associated with those two regions.

Regarding Walikat, it is because as I said in Majapahit era n the era before it no body know about gayaman or ladrang. These two warangka created in Mataram era. Majapahit era always use Walikat not because it simple or practical because Majapahit era span 500 years and mostly peaceful era which lead to Kris become piandel or pusaka (sorry dont know what English word for it) not a killing device so no need of practical or simple warangka.

Little explanation about piandel or pusaka, is Kris become something so powerful that to show it power you dont need to unsheet it just bring it and put it in your waist. I dont know you guys westerner understand or not but I can more clearer if you allow me I will put it on it own thread.

It is also an insult when keris Sajen being said as keris Majapahit, because keris sajen been exist as far as Kadiri and Daha Kingdom era or old Sunda even Sriwijaya and Medang Kamulan era.

Keris is not a killing device this you guys must understand. Its not wavy dagger use to stab some one or to kill some one. It is Karya Sastra Adiluhung written in the language of shape n metallurgy.

I think I will write about it and open a thread because there is big misunderstanding regarding Kris been going on. It need to be corrected


Satrio Numpak Nogo sign out hehehe

Thanks for your response. I think we would all enjoy hearing your further perspectives on keris in a separate thread. You may want to spend some time in our archives first though, to understand just what we actually do understand here before attempting to correct any perceived misconceptions. This is an international forum made up of collectors from all around the world and we have many Indonesian members as well as Westerners. There are many members here who have been studying the keris and keris culture for decades including a member who apprenticed in keris making with a Keraton Empu for many years. The vast majority of our members are well aware that "Keris Majapahit" is a misnomer and that keris sajen is far better term for this type of keris and that Ladrang and Gayaman sheath styles are latter developments than the Walikat form. It would be a good idea to get to know your audience before you tell them how wrong they have been. Your words, knowledge and opinions are welcome here and will be respected. We would ask that you do the same regarding the knowledge and opinions of our other members.