16th century halberd; origin??

Reventlov · 1st July 2016, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I will keep the Swiss Museum links to my favorites and spend some time digesting all that material. But say, when you compare Waldman's fig. 69a (a publication i have) with Snook's fig. 10 (?), are you sure about Snook's fig. number ... or does he have another work besides "The Halberd and Other Polearms of the Late Medieval Period" ?

Sorry, I should have been more specific! I'm referring to fig. 10 in The Halberd and Other European Polearms, 1300-1650. The content is basically the same as the other publication, where the same halberd looks to appear in fig. 5. Waldman's fig. 67b is the other relevant illustration, of another halberd with the five-pointed star mark.

Hopefully the Swiss Museum will continue to update the online collection... I know they have a number of much earlier halberds that are not included, and neither is their very interesting collection of medieval swords.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

Thanks so much for posting these examples. Here is one I own that I posted a little while back. Your post and links provide a wealth of info.

Obviously made by the same craftsman as the examples you posted

Casey, What a fine specimen you have! I have not seen a striped pattern like that before, but it is clearly a perfect match for style and technique with the others.

fernando · 1st July 2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reventlov

... and neither is their very interesting collection of medieval swords.

...

What i have is this excelent printed catalogue, gift of an illustrious forum member. Pity it is in german, of which i don't pick a word. But the pictures speak for themselves.

.

Reventlov · 1st July 2016, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

What i have is this excelent printed catalogue, gift of an illustrious forum member. Pity it is in german, of which i don't pick a word. But the pictures speak for themselves.

Well I am very jealous then... I have browsed this catalogue several times at a university library a few hours from where I live, but have only ever had time to make the briefest notes.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 1st July 2016, 11:18 PM

Often associated with Halberd artwork is the Ethnographic nature of warfare in those days... Camp followers abound bringing to life the weaponry of the day for comparison......I include a weapon development chart and various battle scenes..including Pavia between The Holy Roman Emperor Charles V and Francis 1 of France.

There was even a fighting technique as displayed by the two exponents below described as "A Depiction of halberd combat, from the Opus Amplissimum de Arte Athletica, a martial arts manual by 16th century German master Paulus Hector Mair".

Jim McDougall · 2nd July 2016, 05:54 PM

Beautifully posted illustrations Ibrahiim!!! This adds fascinating dimension to understanding more on these interesting polearms, for those like myself, who are new to deeper study of them. The spirit of our dear departed friend Michael, the Mighty Matchlock.....lives on!!!

Fernando, I join Reventlov in envy of your having such a resource!! This as well as your connections with Mr. Daehnhardt are certainly key elements augmenting your outstanding knowledge and experience with these arms.
Your sharing these kinds of details really help in these discussions.

Thank you all for this great discussion.........really helps to learning more on these halberds and their history .

fernando · 2nd July 2016, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Fernando ...This as well as your connections with Mr. Daehnhardt are certainly key elements augmenting your outstanding knowledge and experience with these arms. ..

Thank you Jim; yes, but not only

.

And speaking of evolution of (polearm) forms, let me show you how it went chez moi.

.

Reventlov · 2nd July 2016, 11:42 PM

Additional food for thought... Here is the only halberd (apart from Fernando's) that I have found so far with one of these star marks that is not of the same general type as the other examples above. Perhaps it is not really the same mark however - the star has seven points, the outline is more oval than pentagonal, and the placement of the mark on the back-spike is different than all the other examples. It is in the Castle Museum of Pszczyna, in Poland.

Coincidentally, a halberd of exactly the same form appeared in the most recent auction of Thomas Del Mar. This weapon bears a different mark, that resembles a pair of tiny halberd heads. This mark also appears on a pollaxe-like halberd in the Deutsches Historisches Museum, and on a glaive in Vienna from the bodyguard of Ferdinand I, engraved with the date 1551. I haven't been able to find a photo of this glaive... it has inventory number A869, and should be listed in volume 2 of Thomas and Gamber's Katalog der Leibrüstkammer. I only have the first volume...

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu...6/lot0150.html

1st July 2016, 11:18 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Halberd and some Atmospheric Stuff !! Often associated with Halberd artwork is the Ethnographic nature of warfare in those days... Camp followers abound bringing to life the weaponry of the day for comparison......I include a weapon development chart and various battle scenes..including Pavia between The Holy Roman Emperor Charles V and Francis 1 of France. There was even a fighting technique as displayed by the two exponents below described as "A Depiction of halberd combat, from the Opus Amplissimum de Arte Athletica, a martial arts manual by 16th century German master Paulus Hector Mair". Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 2nd July 2016 at 12:12 AM.

2nd July 2016, 11:42 PM	#7
Reventlov Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 138	Additional food for thought... Here is the only halberd (apart from Fernando's) that I have found so far with one of these star marks that is not of the same general type as the other examples above. Perhaps it is not really the same mark however - the star has seven points, the outline is more oval than pentagonal, and the placement of the mark on the back-spike is different than all the other examples. It is in the Castle Museum of Pszczyna, in Poland. Coincidentally, a halberd of exactly the same form appeared in the most recent auction of Thomas Del Mar. This weapon bears a different mark, that resembles a pair of tiny halberd heads. This mark also appears on a pollaxe-like halberd in the Deutsches Historisches Museum, and on a glaive in Vienna from the bodyguard of Ferdinand I, engraved with the date 1551. I haven't been able to find a photo of this glaive... it has inventory number A869, and should be listed in volume 2 of Thomas and Gamber's Katalog der Leibrüstkammer. I only have the first volume... http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu...6/lot0150.html Attached Images

2nd July 2016, 05:54 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Beautifully posted illustrations Ibrahiim!!! This adds fascinating dimension to understanding more on these interesting polearms, for those like myself, who are new to deeper study of them. The spirit of our dear departed friend Michael, the Mighty Matchlock.....lives on!!! Fernando, I join Reventlov in envy of your having such a resource!! This as well as your connections with Mr. Daehnhardt are certainly key elements augmenting your outstanding knowledge and experience with these arms. Your sharing these kinds of details really help in these discussions. Thank you all for this great discussion.........really helps to learning more on these halberds and their history .