Destroying artwork

Green · 16th May 2016, 09:43 AM

i have removed mine as Mr kronckew is gentlemanly enough to remove his.

My apology for being rather abrasive .

All is fine now mr Kronckew.

kronckew · 16th May 2016, 10:16 AM

i have removed the anecdotes in the post #25 & here as they offended you.

estcrh · 16th May 2016, 10:34 AM

We should not be going here, it will just cause problems.

kronckew · 16th May 2016, 10:36 AM

they did! the west should admit and not forget these travesties either. and don't forget the holocaust! we cannot learn from the mistakes if we are not aware of them.

the destruction of these antique ivory items is a cultural disaster for all cultures, and as in the past we are not acknowledging, based on the beliefs of the destroyers that they are doing good and following the beliefs they were taught. they need to be taught better tho.

estcrh · 16th May 2016, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

they did! the west should admit and not forget these travesties either. we cannot learn from the mistakes if we are not aware of them.

This discussion is about the current horrible situation which many dealers and collectors now find themselves in, they have invested untold amounts of money on items that were completely legal and suddenly, without any thought of compensation, they are told that their items are now virtually worthless and that they may in fact be considered as criminals if they were to try and sell their formerly legally obtained items.

estcrh · 16th May 2016, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

i have removed the anecdotes in the post #25 as they offended you.

You should remove the remarks from post #42 as well, they are just as if not more offensive.

kronckew · 16th May 2016, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

You should remove the remarks from post #42 as well, they are just as if not more offensive.

i done, how about yours & green's?

mods: please remove our 'offensive' posts, my intent was not to offend. unfortunately just like bonham's, i appear to have gone overboard. when one is digging themselves into a hole, it's best to stop digging.

Gavin Nugent · 16th May 2016, 12:42 PM

Disregard

Gavin

kai · 16th May 2016, 01:01 PM

Hello Gavin,

Quote:

Thus far, this appears to be a US Bonhams issue only as Bonhams in the UK and elsewhere do still auction ivory, here is one such example.

FWIW, in the US, they also continue to auction this (no link to keep with forum policies).

I *suspect* that this is/was not an issue of the auction house (they were fairly upfront with their reference to Oliver's book).

It seems more likely that this happened during transit (from the US to the UK?) or, less likely, with the consignee (also note that the affected items were delayed and not included in the main Wagner auction).

Regards,
Kai

Tim Simmons · 16th May 2016, 01:19 PM

I do not like the ban but for me the more I think about it. The responsibility for the vandalism falls with the auction house and the person putting the items up for auction. Leaving ideas of monetary values aside both have failed in their duty of care and guardianship of the art. I ask if they were ever seen as art or investment.

16th May 2016, 09:43 AM	#1
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 325	i have removed mine as Mr kronckew is gentlemanly enough to remove his. My apology for being rather abrasive . All is fine now mr Kronckew. Last edited by Green; 17th May 2016 at 06:29 AM.

16th May 2016, 10:34 AM	#3
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	We should not be going here, it will just cause problems. Last edited by estcrh; 16th May 2016 at 01:50 PM.

16th May 2016, 12:42 PM	#8
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Disregard Gavin Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 16th May 2016 at 01:00 PM.

16th May 2016, 01:19 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,894	I do not like the ban but for me the more I think about it. The responsibility for the vandalism falls with the auction house and the person putting the items up for auction. Leaving ideas of monetary values aside both have failed in their duty of care and guardianship of the art. I ask if they were ever seen as art or investment. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 16th May 2016 at 04:31 PM.

16th May 2016, 10:16 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	i have removed the anecdotes in the post #25 & here as they offended you. Last edited by kronckew; 16th May 2016 at 10:49 AM.

16th May 2016, 10:36 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,253	they did! the west should admit and not forget these travesties either. and don't forget the holocaust! we cannot learn from the mistakes if we are not aware of them. the destruction of these antique ivory items is a cultural disaster for all cultures, and as in the past we are not acknowledging, based on the beliefs of the destroyers that they are doing good and following the beliefs they were taught. they need to be taught better tho. Last edited by kronckew; 16th May 2016 at 10:48 AM.