Pendongkok Keris Makassar/Gowa(?)

David · 2nd May 2016, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I don't have the book.
Originates from; or was found, David?

The information is a quote from the book Rick. I'm afraid i know no more.

rasdan · 2nd May 2016, 04:46 PM

I've also been contemplating to do that Battara!

I didn't notice that Gayo keris also uses selut Gustav. Very interesting!

It seems that this selut/pendongkok were found where ever the Bugis sets foot on.

From Sulawesi, Ternate, Bali and the Malay Peninsula. So, it is probably safe to assume that this style of selut is probably Sulawesi style since we also have a dated example above form 1749 which is a keris with Sulawesi dress.

Anybody know why the rubies in the metal detector selut are oddly and shaped? The shapes are different form each other it looks like naturally formed?

David · 2nd May 2016, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

Anybody know why the rubies in the metal detector selut are oddly and shaped? The shapes are different form each other it looks like naturally formed?

Ruby in its nature form is most likely as a crystal. The stones in this selut seem to have been tumble polished. That would account for various sizes and shapes. The naturally occurring mineral would not look like these polished stones, they would look more like these crystals below.

rasdan · 3rd May 2016, 06:03 AM

Cool! Thanks David. I always wondered how these stones were processed. Statring to think to DIY these stones for my selut project..

A. G. Maisey · 3rd May 2016, 07:36 AM

The red stones in these keris rings might be ruby, true, but they might also be tourmaline, or garnet or spinel, or even something else.

What David has shown us is most certainly one of the forms that ruby rough comes in, but if you are panning river gravel, or the old bed of a river that is no longer there, for ruby or other gemstones, the stones are usually like little water worn pebbles, the image I've posted shows more or less what you can expect them to look like, but they'll often be much smoother than in the pic.

In S.E. Asia, and also in India I believe, these little pebbles were individually polished to follow the shape of the stone. They were stuck onto the end of a stick with hard wax to permit the polishing.

rasdan · 3rd May 2016, 04:16 PM

Thanks Alan, no wonder some of the stones are very small. One guy showed me his talisman of this type of polished stones that looks like the seed of pomegranate. It makes sense that these stones were panned in a river as it is very small.

David · 3rd May 2016, 06:19 PM

Well yes Alan, when rubies find there way into a river be they do become river worn and break down over time. But those river-worn ruby pebbles most certainly began as larger crystals since that is the way rubies form. You can still see the crystal structure in many of the fragments in Alan's photo.The same can be said for tourmaline and garnets. Is is my understanding that red, clear stones are such as garnet and tourmaline are generally referred to as ruby in that area.

3rd May 2016, 07:36 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	The red stones in these keris rings might be ruby, true, but they might also be tourmaline, or garnet or spinel, or even something else. What David has shown us is most certainly one of the forms that ruby rough comes in, but if you are panning river gravel, or the old bed of a river that is no longer there, for ruby or other gemstones, the stones are usually like little water worn pebbles, the image I've posted shows more or less what you can expect them to look like, but they'll often be much smoother than in the pic. In S.E. Asia, and also in India I believe, these little pebbles were individually polished to follow the shape of the stone. They were stuck onto the end of a stick with hard wax to permit the polishing. Attached Images

2nd May 2016, 04:46 PM	#2
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	I've also been contemplating to do that Battara! I didn't notice that Gayo keris also uses selut Gustav. Very interesting! It seems that this selut/pendongkok were found where ever the Bugis sets foot on. From Sulawesi, Ternate, Bali and the Malay Peninsula. So, it is probably safe to assume that this style of selut is probably Sulawesi style since we also have a dated example above form 1749 which is a keris with Sulawesi dress. Anybody know why the rubies in the metal detector selut are oddly and shaped? The shapes are different form each other it looks like naturally formed?

3rd May 2016, 06:03 AM	#4
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Cool! Thanks David. I always wondered how these stones were processed. Statring to think to DIY these stones for my selut project..

3rd May 2016, 04:16 PM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Thanks Alan, no wonder some of the stones are very small. One guy showed me his talisman of this type of polished stones that looks like the seed of pomegranate. It makes sense that these stones were panned in a river as it is very small.

3rd May 2016, 06:19 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Well yes Alan, when rubies find there way into a river be they do become river worn and break down over time. But those river-worn ruby pebbles most certainly began as larger crystals since that is the way rubies form. You can still see the crystal structure in many of the fragments in Alan's photo.The same can be said for tourmaline and garnets. Is is my understanding that red, clear stones are such as garnet and tourmaline are generally referred to as ruby in that area.