Kora

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

Why the sarcasm?

A Forumite showed pics, honestly described the story and politely requested help.

A condescending snark was not asked for and was not deserved.

My question (in any case not sarcasm) was not addressed to the author of the topic. My question to participants who began to admire an item that is a souvenir.

Originally Posted by ariel

These items date from the end of 19 to the beginning of 20 century. They are ceremonial. They might have been produced as tourist items, but Oliver Pinchot in his book of the late R. Wagner collection had shown a khanda with very similar decorations. In his comment, items of such decorative abundance were produced for the Dehli durbars ( 1877,1903,1911), all-India assemblies at the coronations of British Kings, them being also The Emperors of India. Every Rajah brought a retinue armed to the teeth with very "show-y" weapons. Theatrical? Historical? Depends on the point of view of a collector.

Unless you are specifically interested in the battle-proven weapons, these shields and kora reflect prevailing trends in Indian arms culture of that time.

I'm surprised how can compare the elegant sword from the collection of Wagner and rough souvenir sword that we are discussing.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

My question (in any case not sarcasm) was not addressed to the author of the topic. My question to participants who began to admire an item that is a souvenir.



I'm surprised how can compare the elegant sword from the collection of Wagner and rough souvenir sword that we are discussing.

You find these crudely decorated weapons made with flat sheet type metal in the way of swords, daggers and axe heads etc.

[ariel]

Erroneously I mentioned khanda. Sorry.
I meant # 4-21.

[mahratt]

Tegha number 4-21, a little closer to the subject under discussion.
But:
1) and it is much more elegant, than the subject discussion.
2) I would love to see photos of the Hindu with such Tegha in the Durbar.

And in Book can write anything you like In Russia we have a saying: "Paper endure all" .... I prefer facts rather than captions for pictures in the album for a coffee table.

[ariel]

I wish there were more "coffee table albums" like that...

I tend to respect Oliver Pinchot's opinions. Obviously you do not. To each his own. Pity you cannot comprehend his wise and nuanced insights: you might have changed your mind.

[mahratt]

Again, I see only the words ... No photo Hindu on Durbar with the same sword..... But I'm not surprised)))

[ariel]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Again, I see only the words ... No photo Hindu on Durbar with the same sword..... But I'm not surprised)))

Folks, what else can I say?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

I wish there were more "coffee table albums" like that...

I tend to respect Oliver Pinchot's opinions. Obviously you do not. To each his own. Pity you cannot comprehend his wise and nuanced insights: you might have changed your mind.

Very well said Ariel!!! and I am with you 150% re: Oliver !!!

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Very well said Ariel!!! and I am with you 150% re: Oliver !!!

Jim, that's fine - trust people! I repeat to you the question that asked ariel (ariel not answer). You know Durbar photo, for example, in Delhi, which has a similar sword?

[Panzerraptor]

Just to make sure, my weapon is likely a 19th Century Indian kora/tulwar hybrid crafted for royals? Sounds awesome! I figured that this weapon was ceremonial based on the design and flange size, but I wasn't sure where it was from or who could've actually used it. Also, I forgot to mention that this item still has an edge along the inner curve.

Also, I think I've seen that kind of tegha before. A month or so before, a similar specimen had been circulating around some auction sites and eBay. Though when it was listed, I wasn't sure it was the real deal. Maybe I should take it seriously the next time it ever shows up.

Anyway, about cleaning it. Is there a specific way of doing it for this sword other than the usual mineral oil/paper towel method? Also, are the colored portions of this sword brass or gold?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Jim, that's fine - trust people! I repeat to you the question that asked ariel (ariel not answer). You know Durbar photo, for example, in Delhi, which has a similar sword?

I don't trust everyone........but I will tell you that if Oliver says it, you better believe it! He says more in just a few well chosen words than a lot of arms scholars can put together in many (including me . That is why I always resent this book of a fine collection by him being even remotely classified as 'coffee table' !!!

So that was a serious question (or statement?) on photos being required as proof of the weapons appearing in these Durbars, as well noted by Ariel ?
That particular prerequisite seems rather humorous in this context, as I would imagine many archaeological and anthropological papers and texts must be rendered inconsequential as many assertions concerning artifacts do not have photographic proof. There weren't many cameras around before the 1850s (at least as far as I know).

In any case, Oliver perfectly responded to this (I believe tongue in cheek question?) insistence on photographic proof of weaponry at durbars. This was in my opinion well placed as it illustrated the sort of weaponry, and clearly somewhat theatrical or exaggerated types of costume etc. were extant in these events.

The British Raj and many colonial circumstances in various countries and regions lent well to the cottage industry of supplying souveniers to both occupying forces and whatever tourism might have developed by visitors.

These items were inherently of traditional forms, and meant to be impressive. They were not of the quality of diplomatic gifts or presentation items, but as Ariel has noted, have gained their own historic value as pertains to the events in which they might have been emplaced.

To speak of these kinds of items dismissively seems unwarranted when being shown in good faith for discussion.
I would share this little note here for consideration:

" ...I was once told that it was said of Laking that he
would always find something kind to say about
a fellow collectors object".
re: Sir Guy Francis Laking (1875-1919) arms collector and historian
-"Arms & Armour Study in Edwardian Britain"
Sid Blair and Michael Lacy (1999)

I guess sort of the mark of a gentleman. I know I choose to try to
follow that lead......but not all collectors do.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

Erroneously I mentioned khanda. Sorry.
I meant # 4-21.

Is there a picture of this one?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Is there a picture of this one?

Here is the this sword.