Pesh Kabz

[Miguel]

Hello Everyone, I thought you might like to see this what I think is a rather posh Indian Pesh Kabz. The hilt is rock crystal having a carved rams head pommel and decorated with red and green gem stones and gold wire to form the shape of flowers. The blade is decorated with gold and has a cartouche on each side with inscriptions. the flange on the back of the blade is also decorated in gold.
The scabbard is of wood covered with velvet and with gold chape and locket engraved with foliage and animals.
The overall length is 13 ins with a blade length of 8.25 ins x 1.5 ins wide at the shoulder. I would be grateful if anyone can translate the inscriptions in the cartouches. Thanking you in anticipation.
Regards
Miguel

[mariusgmioc]

Very beautiful work! Superb craftsmanship as you can even see the veins of the koftgari leaves. It is both a weapon and a work of art (and a very exquisite one)!

However, it is rather recent (would say first half of 20th century) and the "gems" appear to be glass.

But I would love to have it.

[ariel]

I think it may be even " newer".
Decorative "gems" are secured by a technique imitating kundun, but in fact it is not gold amalgam, but rather wire around the perimeter. The blade is mechanical damaskus, and both this as well as fully intact decorations on the blade are epidemic on modern Indian creations.

I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

[kronckew]

the very short tangs on these 'crystal' handles knives scares me & would seem to relegate them to 'display only'. i would not expect to see many really old ones that have not had the join fail, if not from anything other than dropping.

[Bob A]

A very handsome knife.

If it were made yesterday, it would be no less an Indian Pesh Kabz. It possesses the attributes that encompass the tradition, and is done with artfulness and flair.

[Battara]

I was thinking that it was a marriage of an old blade with a new handle of glass, which seems smaller than it should be.

I do want to hear from the others.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Battara

I was thinking that it was a marriage of an old blade with a new handle of glass, which seems smaller than it should be.

I do want to hear from the others.

I don't see many if any inclusions, which I consider a bit strange for rock crystal.
It does seem a very nice piece of work at any gate.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Battara

I was thinking that it was a marriage of an old blade with a new handle of glass, which seems smaller than it should be.

I do want to hear from the others.

I beg to differ, while I might be wrong.

Indians have rather small hands and that reflects on the sizes of the hilts. I have several Indian daggers and some have unusually small hilts for Western hands (for example the majority of Indian Katars and Patah swords would be impossible to be used by westerners as their hands wouldn't fit the grip). However, they fit perfectly smaller hands, which I think it would be the case for this one.

Now with regards to glass vs. rock cristal, I believe it would be very difficult to distinguish them from the photos. However, rock crystal is neither very rare, nor very expensive (I have seen hundreds of huge crystals in a couple of shops in Brazil), so it might very well be rock crystal. Anyhow, this should be fairly easy to determine upon closer examination.

As with regards to the blade, I haven't seen any recent Indian blade chiseled with such skill and I suspect this is because it would be very time consuming and economically not efficient. I even tried to have such a blade made to order but I wasn't successful. Moreover, the pattern & contrast of the welded Damascus is not characteristic to the modern productions but to the earlier 20th century blades.

[corrado26]

In my Archive I found fotos of an Indian Pesk Kabz whose handle with the head of a ram might come from the same source............
corrado26

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by corrado26

In my Archive I found fotos of an Indian Pesk Kabz whose handle with the head of a ram might come from the same source............
corrado26

This is also a very nice example but the stones on the hilt look much more like natural rubies. However, an accurate determination would be impossible based on photos only.

[estcrh]

In my opinion this is a completely modern made example, while it does not strictly adhere to the original methods it is a beautiful pesh. It is good to see that somewere there exists the ability to still create something nice.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by estcrh

In my opinion this is a completely modern made example, while it does not strictly adhere to the original methods it is a beautiful pesh. It is good to see that somewere there exists the ability to still create something nice.

I have been looking for a couple of years for an Indian workshop/swordsmith capable of making something like this, without success.

Maybe you can suggest one such place because I would definitely want to get a Pesh like this one.

But then, if it were modern or at least recent production, shouldn't we be able to find more such exquisite pieces readily available for sale?! Because if you look at the pieces of recent production, you won't find anything like this.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Indians have rather small hands and that reflects on the sizes of the hilts. I have several Indian daggers and some have unusually small hilts for Western hands (for example the majority of Indian Katars and Patah swords would be impossible to be used by westerners as their hands wouldn't fit the grip). However, they fit perfectly smaller hands, which I think it would be the case for this one.

You may have a point. Besides, I took another look at the pictures and noticed that they are taken at a slight angle, which skews the view for me, making the hilt smaller than it might otherwise be.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I have been looking for a couple of years for an Indian workshop/swordsmith capable of making something like this, without success.

Maybe you can suggest one such place because I would definitely want to get a Pesh like this one.

But then, if it were modern or at least recent production, shouldn't we be able to find more such exquisite pieces readily available for sale?! Because if you look at the pieces of recent production, you won't find anything like this.

I have read that there are some craftsmen in India who can still produce high level work, the kind that we would like to own even if completely new, I have also heard that this work is extremely expensive and time consuming, I would imagine that there is a waiting list and most pieces are sold before we would ever see them.

Here is an example made by an Indian named "Soni".
https://www.flickr.com/photos/379581...57621960200756
https://www.pinterest.com/sbikaner/fine-crafts/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmRoyXwlSDw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnSWOujXyw

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I have read that there are some craftsmen in India who can still produce high level work, the kind that we would like to own even if completely new, I have also heard that this work is extremely expensive and time consuming, I would imagine that there is a waiting list and most pieces are sold before we would ever see them.

Here is an example made by an Indian named "Soni".
https://www.flickr.com/photos/379581...57621960200756
https://www.pinterest.com/sbikaner/fine-crafts/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmRoyXwlSDw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnSWOujXyw

Thank you very much for the info!

I know there are exceptional craftsmen in India that can produce exceptional work. Just didn't find myself, any.

And didn't see any nicely chiseled blades coming out of their recent production either.

However, I keep looking!

As with regards to the "Mughal" Khanjar in your photos... I guess it's an antique Persian wootz blade with a new Indian Mughal style hilt.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

As with regards to the "Mughal" Khanjar in your photos... I guess it's an antique Persian wootz blade with a new Indian Mughal style hilt.

About the blade "Blade is not newly made... it is vintage wootz"....whatever vintage wootz means.

[AkaaliSingh]

How can one tell the difference between glass or crystal on handles? This boggles my mind :s The blade here looks to be pattern welded?

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by AkaaliSingh

How can one tell the difference between glass or crystal on handles? This boggles my mind :s The blade here looks to be pattern welded?

Glass is homogeneous, crystal is not (meaning it has inclusions and some separation cracks between the crystalline planes) but NOT bubbles.

Glass on the other hand may show bubbles.

But for smaller pieces that is not always the case, as smaller pieces can be completely free from inclusions.

Another sign would be the way it lets the light pass through it. Under particular angles, under bright light, quartz will split the light and give a rainbow effect. Glass won't show this as it is amorphous and lets the light pass the same way no matter what angle.

But it is not easy.

There are other methods like measuring the electric conductivity (glass is excellent insulator, quartz is electric conductive), thermal conductivity, etc. But these methods need special measuring equipment.

Last, but not least there is the scratching test. Quartz is harder than glass so glass doesn't scratch quartz easily, while quartz scratches easily glass.

As with regards to the blade, the one of the Pesh-kabz is pattern welded and the one of the Khanjar is wootz.

[Tim Simmons]

I do not like it. I do not like the horns. They are weak in form and I do not believe any lapidist would do this, that is leave a gap between the head and horns. Besides that it lacks life for the effort. Sorry if I seem an old git.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I do not like it. I do not like the horns. They are weak in form and I do not believe any lapidist would do this, that is leave a gap between the head and horns. Besides that it lacks life for the effort. Sorry if I seem an old git.

The detail, realism, expression etc are up to the artist, there is quite a bit of range in the examples I know of.

[Miguel]

I would like to thank everyone for their interesting and most informative comments (even old gits the level of knowledge of some of the members of the forum never ceases to amaze me nor does the fact that it is so freely given, I really am most appreciative.
I had no idea of its age it was one of those impulse buys I saw it and just had to have it for the beautiful decoration and superb craftsmanship, I love it With regard to it`s age I would defer to your knowledge and experience.
For interest I have owned it for approx. 20 years. Thanks again for your comments.
Regards
Miguel