Haladie

Jim McDougall · 6th April 2016, 08:04 PM

As has been pointed out, earlier writing and it seems definition of these double opposed blades appear to relate to the Rajput and regional development of these as in that configuration.

While these seem to have evolved as noted from paired buffalo horns crafted into similar form blades, I am wondering if perhaps the addition of the third blade (on the guard) evolved in Rajput context from the parrying weapon we have discussed.

With the concept of the transverse grip as shown, it seems this same configuration is found on the shields with dagger blade on the center boss.
It is tempting to consider whether this kind of grip position might have been associated in any way with the katar, which of course also has a transverse grip.
It would seem that in close quarters in the melee, an extra dagger blade vertically placed on the guard (or shield boss) would be handy in awkward situation with no room for wider movement of the primary blades.

The Sudanese versions of the haladie appear to of course follow the original (Rajput and Syrian) form which as suggested likely went there via Mamluk hosts, with two opposed blades. I have not seen any African versions with the extended center blade.

In looking at these transverse situated grip weapons, in Stone (from Calvert, 1908) there is a curious gauntlet type weapon shown as Spanish and referred to as the 'manople' which also uses transverse grips.
While deviating from the main topic of parrying weapons of haladie form, it seems interesting as another associated form.

P.S. Marcus, congratulations on this outstanding example from Artzi!

Marcus · 10th April 2016, 04:14 PM

Comments welcome

estcrh · 11th April 2016, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

Comments welcome

A nice example, what is the measurement from tip to tip? Here is a relic, the middle blade is missing, it is 26.26 inches / 66.67 cm from tip to tip. You can see that the knuckle guard is brazed to the handle.

Marcus · 12th April 2016, 07:04 PM

Mine is also 26 inches tip to tip.

estcrh · 16th April 2016, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

Mine is also 26 inches tip to tip.

Thanks Marcus, once you start looking around you find that there is just not much information on haladie available.

estcrh · 16th April 2016, 02:33 AM

Jens dated example of 1806 is the oldest reference I can find.

estcrh · 16th April 2016, 02:42 AM

Information on Indian parrying weapons is hard to find, they seem to be related but what came first and who initially used them, are they all originally Rajput weapons, top down, two sainti, two madu, two haladie, saintie.

10th April 2016, 04:14 PM	#2
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Pictures as promised Comments welcome Attached Images

12th April 2016, 07:04 PM	#4
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	size Mine is also 26 inches tip to tip.

16th April 2016, 02:33 AM	#6
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Jens dated example of 1806 is the oldest reference I can find. Attached Images

16th April 2016, 02:42 AM	#7
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Information on Indian parrying weapons is hard to find, they seem to be related but what came first and who initially used them, are they all originally Rajput weapons, top down, two sainti, two madu, two haladie, saintie. Attached Images

6th April 2016, 08:04 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	As has been pointed out, earlier writing and it seems definition of these double opposed blades appear to relate to the Rajput and regional development of these as in that configuration. While these seem to have evolved as noted from paired buffalo horns crafted into similar form blades, I am wondering if perhaps the addition of the third blade (on the guard) evolved in Rajput context from the parrying weapon we have discussed. With the concept of the transverse grip as shown, it seems this same configuration is found on the shields with dagger blade on the center boss. It is tempting to consider whether this kind of grip position might have been associated in any way with the katar, which of course also has a transverse grip. It would seem that in close quarters in the melee, an extra dagger blade vertically placed on the guard (or shield boss) would be handy in awkward situation with no room for wider movement of the primary blades. The Sudanese versions of the haladie appear to of course follow the original (Rajput and Syrian) form which as suggested likely went there via Mamluk hosts, with two opposed blades. I have not seen any African versions with the extended center blade. In looking at these transverse situated grip weapons, in Stone (from Calvert, 1908) there is a curious gauntlet type weapon shown as Spanish and referred to as the 'manople' which also uses transverse grips. While deviating from the main topic of parrying weapons of haladie form, it seems interesting as another associated form. P.S. Marcus, congratulations on this outstanding example from Artzi!