what is this and where it comes from

[Helleri]

I could be way off on this...But I think I am seeing between the pictures a pretty clear casting line (a seam from casting with a two part mold). It looks like all the low points have been painted black (or in other words antiqued). The engraving doesn't have the kind of marks that push etching/chasing creates. But the faded incomplete lines of the etching look like what you get from casting. And the blade looks like it is pretty much a flat bar of homogeneous steel. It really looks like a prop blade. The kind of thing that would be used in stage acting, low budget movies, and parades/festivals. Maybe even a training blade?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Helleri

I could be way off on this...But I think I am seeing between the pictures a pretty clear casting line (a seam from casting with a two part mold). It looks like all the low points have been painted black (or in other words antiqued). The engraving doesn't have the kind of marks that push etching/chasing creates. But the faded incomplete lines of the etching look like what you get from casting. And the blade looks like it is pretty much a flat bar of homogeneous steel. It really looks like a prop blade. The kind of thing that would be used in stage acting, low budget movies, and parades/festivals. Maybe even a training blade?

I have no problem with the cast as a lot of Ottoman objects were casted, look at our thread on the palaskas. I' m more concern by the blade... It's a shame to not have any help from the big specialists on this forum...

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I have no problem with the cast as a lot of Ottoman objects were casted, look at our thread on the palaskas. I' m more concern by the blade... It's a shame to not have any help from the big specialists on this forum...

Perhaps if you answered the questions posed re the blade, results might be more forthcoming. I believe some one asked if the blade was sharpened. Also some dimensions and profile details might help........and maybe some clear close ups of the blade itself?
You keep referring to this being Ottoman.....I would have thought that the Ottoman Empire was long gone by the time this sword was made........

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Perhaps if you answered the questions posed re the blade, results might be more forthcoming. I believe some one asked if the blade was sharpened. Also some dimensions and profile details might help........and maybe some clear close ups of the blade itself?
You keep referring to this being Ottoman.....I would have thought that the Ottoman Empire was long gone by the time this sword was made........

I don't think that I mentioned that I have this sword. So it will be diffcult for me to answer to these questions. There are the best photos that I have. I don't know if it was Ottoman, but you have to know that Ottoman empire lasted up to 1920ties...

[Helleri]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I have no problem with the cast as a lot of Ottoman objects were casted, look at our thread on the palaskas. I' m more concern by the blade... It's a shame to not have any help from the big specialists on this forum...

I have seen plenty of old casts, a lot of bronze ormolu in particular on clocks, boxes, and later applied work to case piece furniture. Even brass/pseudo-bronze ormolu for footed tables (eagle claw and goat hoof). Some acanthus leaf brass pieces as applied work as well.

Generally speaking they are fine and even on the older stuff. Cheap modern mass production casting in comparison tends to looks more like this from what I have seen. High thinner cast line in some spots, but rounded off, with flat wider parts (a sloppy cast line).

But it isn't the cast line (rather the quality of it) alone. It's that taken with everything else. The pattern balding out in some places. The black paint in the recesses of the pattern instead of copper chloride or zinc oxide build up. A tinge of brown smearing on some of the high points that looks like it could a thing layer of varnish. The wire wrap looking like it was part of the cast as well, instead of twisted wired actually wrapped on. Taken with the blade. It just looks cheap and newish to me.

Maybe I am being overtly analytical and it is leaving me too much reservations. But a lot of losses on past vintage and antique flips has taught me to look for what is wrong about a piece, before looking for what is right about a piece. And if I saw this at the local flea market, an estate sale, or the local auction house...I would pass